| wiggin | 2010-04-15 08:41:33 |
Rules about the draw: You can't have the same card as the opponent.
The following combinations are banned in the basic houses: Orc Chieftain + Forest Sprite Meditation + Stone Rain
You always get exactly one local sweep: {Flame Wave, Chain Lightning, Inferno} Chain Lightning is 50%
You always get exactly one basic mana generator: {Fire Priest, Merfolk Elder, Elf Hermit} Fire Priest is 50%. You will have the mana to play the mana generator on your first turn, unless the opponent does something to reduce your mana.
You always get at least one direct damage: {Armageddon, Griffin, Call to Thunder, Lightning Bolt, Air Elemental, Natural Fury}
You always get at least two healing cards: {Ice Guard, Water Elemental, Faerie Sage, Elvish Healer, Nature Ritual, Rejuvenation, Master Healer} (Except sometimes you get only one, and then it is Rejuvenation)
1% rule: Outside of fire 1-8 and Air 6-8, if you have a card, there is less than 1% chance you also have the adjacent card, one higher/lower. (For the basic houses.)
The following special house combinations are banned: Greater Demon + Armageddon Armageddon + Wall of Reflection Nature Ritual + Wall of Reflection Meditation + Cursed Fog Ice Golem + Cursed Fog
The exact drawing distribution in 1.1 is not presently known. However, 95%+ of the time it is like this:
Fire: One card 1-4, one Card 4-8, one card 9-12, and one arbitrary. Water: One card 1-3, one Card 4-8, one card 9-12, and one arbitrary. Air: One card 1-3, one Card 4-8, one card 9-12, and one arbitrary. Earth: One card 1-4, one Card 4-8, one card 9-12, and one arbitrary. Special House: One card 1-2, one card 3-4, one card 5-6, one card 7-8. Modified by wiggin on 2010-04-17 08:31:25 | wiggin | 2010-04-15 08:45:00 |
Links to threads:
Card list:
Wiggin's Strategy Guide: Board Control:
Wiggin's Strategy Guide: General Principles:
Wiggin's Strategy Guide: The Specific Cards (Basic Houses):
Sealeta's Special House Card Rankings:
Sealeta's Basic House Card Rankings:
Silbe's Card Distribution Thread: Modified by wiggin on 2010-04-25 16:08:38 | wiggin | 2010-04-15 08:55:26 |
Errata:
General: -If a spell is played that kill both players, the player who played the spell wins. -If two targets are equally well suited for an automatic effect, the leftmost will be chosen. (For instance, Mech 6, Sorcery 6.)- -A player's hp can be lowered to below 0 by Sea Sprites, and this player can still survive as long as his health is raised back above 0 by an elven healer, master healer, or insanian peacekeeper before his turn starts.
Fire Cards: -Dragon will not boost illusion 3. -Dragon will not boost the damage output of Blood Ritual or Explosion if the dragon itself is the creature being sacrificed to play these spells. -If you have two Goblin Berserkers sitting next to each other they will both deal damage to the other one, even if this damage causes one or both of them to die. The Berserker on the right can be lowered to 0 hp by the one on the left, but he'll still attack his neighbors before dying.
Water cards: -Golems can still be stunned by Sonic Boom and Scorpion, even though they are immune to damage done by spells or creature abilities. -Golems can be damaged by Hydra etc. Since it is an attack.
Air Cards: -Tornado can kill phoenix. -Phoenix doesn't die from a damage spell, that also reduced fire power below 10. -When Dragon and an Air 1 are both boosting a spell, the Air 1 effect takes place after the the dragon effect. -Tornado. If targetet on a respawning demon, it will respawn.
Earth Cards: -If you play Earth 6 while an Earth Elemental is one of your two strongest creatures, the spell will deal damage based on the Earth Elemental's attack right before the spell was cast. The Earth Elemental's attack will be lowered to reflect the drain of Earth mana after this damage has already been done.
Illusion cards: -Wall of reflection doesn't deal damage if its the target of Tornado, Sorcery 8, or if Death 7 is played.
Death: -Sacrifice kills phoenix. -Keeper of death: Spells affect the opponent first. So if you kill all creatures on the board, you gain points equal to all your opponents creatures. If the opponent kills all creatures, you get nothing.
Beast cards: -Basilisk kills illusion 2 and Golems, if they have <=6 health. -If a 1 hp White Elephant is hit with an Armageddon (or any direct damage spell), it will absorb the entire spell's worth of damage and none of it will bleed through to the player.
Control cards: -Mindstealer vs Lightning Cloud: Lightning Cloud deals 4 to itself only. This holds only if they're directly opposite. -Mindstealer vs Ice Golem. Golem takes 4 damage from itself.
Sorcery: -A Phoenix that is killed by Sonic Boom and which then rises again will not be stunned and thus will be able to attack normally. Demon 1, Demon 5, and Demon 7 also arise unstunned if they're killed by a sonic boom. However, if a demon 5 is stunned by sonic boom, killing it by demon 2, will make the newspawned demon 5 be stunned.
Chaos cards: -Insanian shaman will only hit an element with 0 mana, if there are none higher. It will only hit an element with 1 mana if there are none higher. Modified by wiggin on 2010-04-25 16:09:24 | Plynx103 | 2010-04-15 11:30:27 |
Also check out the post Jul-14-2009 04:59 in New player guide. Modified by Plynx103 on 2010-04-15 11:31:37 | wiggin | 2010-04-15 13:18:33 |
Definitely, but I don't know how to link directly to it, or if that is even possible.
| Zannoland | 2010-04-15 18:15:28 |
Some mistakes there. The sweep/mana guy is 50% for the player who goes first. It's chain lightning which is 50% for the first player. Then it's 50% between the other two cards for the player who goes second. You can always play your mana grower on your first turn (unless weakness prevents it) Modified by Zannoland on 2010-04-15 18:17:15 | wiggin | 2010-04-15 18:24:47 |
Some mistakes there.
The sweep/mana guy is 50% for the player who goes first.
It's chain lightning which is 50% for the first player.
Then it's 50% between the other two cards for the player who goes second.
True, it's Chain Lightning, corrected. It's not 50-50 between the remaining two, for the second player. Modified by wiggin on 2010-04-15 18:29:28 | Zannoland | 2010-04-15 19:39:34 |
While it is obvious, you should also include that no two players can have the same card. You should also clarify that the 1% rule only applies to the elements. Then I think you've covered everything there is to cover. Modified by Zannoland on 2010-04-15 19:40:04 | CIever | 2010-04-16 00:47:16 |
Your pack of cards is composed of 16 elemental cards and 4 special. They
are stowed into the table with five columns and four rows. Some
elemental cards can be situated in a variety of rows. Here you see my
version of card distribution in the 1.1 version.
Pay attention that Inferno&Stone Rain nowadays can't be in the
fourth row and fire&earth4 can be situated in the 1st.
In the previous version I remember I had had some games with 11-cost
creatures&spell in the 3rd row, but in the 1.1 version i haven't met
this yet.
Do you agree with this distribution?
FIRE.
1st slot:1,2,3,4
2nd slot:2,3,4,5,6,7,8
3rd slot: 5,6,7,8,9,10
4th slot;10,11,12
WATER
1st slot:1,2,3,
2nd slot:3,4,5,6,7
3rd slot: 5, 6,7,8,9,10
4th slot;9,10,11,12
AIR
1st slot:1,2,3,
2nd slot:3,4,5,6,7,8
3rd slot: 5, 6,7,8,9,10
4th slot;9,10,11,12
EARTH:
1st slot:1,2,3,4
2nd slot:3,4,5,6,7,8
3rd slot: 6,7,8,9,10
4th slot;10,11,12
To predict opponent's cards you should summarize this with your cards,
banned combos, 1% Wiggin's rule and with "the lower-cost card can't be
situated higher than more mana-expensive in
the column."
| Plynx103 | 2010-04-16 03:02:54 |
I don't think the 1% rule applies in 1.1.. I've seen a number of draws already with stone rain and earth elemental, and others.
Modified by Plynx103 on 2010-04-16 03:03:10 | Zannoland | 2010-04-16 10:38:08 |
Your pack of cards is composed of 16 elemental cards and 4 special. They are stowed into the table with five columns and four rows. Some elemental cards can be situated in a variety of rows. Here you see my version of card distribution in the 1.1 version.
Pay attention that Inferno&Stone Rain nowadays can't be in the fourth row and fire&earth4 can be situated in the 1st.
In the previous version I remember I had had some games with 11-cost creatures&spell in the 3rd row, but in the 1.1 version i haven't met this yet.
Do you agree with this distribution?
FIRE.
1st slot:1,2,3,4
2nd slot:2,3,4,5,6,7,8
3rd slot: 5,6,7,8,9,10
4th slot;10,11,12
WATER
1st slot:1,2,3,
2nd slot:3,4,5,6,7
3rd slot: 5, 6,7,8,9,10
4th slot;9,10,11,12
AIR
1st slot:1,2,3,
2nd slot:3,4,5,6,7,8
3rd slot: 5, 6,7,8,9,10
4th slot;9,10,11,12
EARTH:
1st slot:1,2,3,4
2nd slot:3,4,5,6,7,8
3rd slot: 6,7,8,9,10
4th slot;10,11,12
To predict opponent's cards you should summarize this with your cards, banned combos, 1% Wiggin's rule and with "the lower-cost card can't be situated higher than more mana-expensive in the column." nope, the fire column is truly unrestricted up to 8. i got a 7/8/9/12 draw last week and was like uhhhhhh you can also definitely have fire end at 9, it happens to me all the time
Modified by Zannoland on 2010-04-16 10:39:03 | wiggin | 2010-04-16 14:18:15 |
In 1.03 it was 1-3,4-8,9-12, one arbitrary. Now I 'm not sure, although I have seen earth 4 as the lowest earth. We really need Silbe again for 1.1. Or the developers could tell us.
Btw, thanks for pinning the thread. | Zannoland | 2010-04-16 17:37:00 |
In 1.03 it was 1-3,4-8,9-12, one arbitrary. Now I 'm not sure, although I have seen earth 4 as the lowest earth. We really need Silbe again for 1.1. Or the developers could tell us.
Btw, thanks for pinning the thread.
any draw can potentially begin at 4 now. i've never seen ice golem, but i have seen fire drake, faerie sage, and rejuvenation. i assume ice golem can happen too but it'd probably be very rare. any draw can still end at 9. i don't know how clever got it in his head that it couldn't. i've gotten the 9 card in all four elements in my bottom slot at least once this patch.
| CIever | 2010-04-16 17:55:28 |
You can simulate different packs in hotseat game. IMO air4&water4 can't be in thr first slot and fire9&earth9 can't be in the last. If you will notice that i'm wrong - just make a replay)
| jazzfish | 2010-04-16 18:03:07 |
While it is obvious, you should also include that no two players can have the same card. You should also clarify that the 1% rule only applies to the elements. Then I think you've covered everything there is to cover. And also, trivial though it is, special slots are always:
1: 1,2
2: 3,4
3: 5,6
4: 7,8
So if you see a Scorpion, you don't have to worry about whether it's going to get healed by a Magic Hamster.
| panderson | 2010-05-02 12:42:49 |
About the banned combos:
Why are banned
Meditation + Stone Rain
Meditation + Cursed Fog
Nature Ritual + Wall of Reflection ? | wiggin | 2010-05-02 15:27:47 |
Regarding mediation bans, it is because it would be too easy to just sit back and save up mana with mediation, while killing all creatures your opponent plays with the cheap mass destruction.
Nature Ritual + Wall of Reflection I'm not sure about. It deals 8 damage and heals 8 life for 2 earth mana. Which can be strong, but I don't think a ban was necessary.
| panderson | 2010-05-02 15:49:39 |
If you meditate while you 're recharging E9 I can add on the field 1 f1 x 4 turn = 40 damage so it's sort of complicated I suppose. Regarding mediation bans, it is because it would be too easy to just sit back and save up mana with mediation, while killing all creatures your opponent plays with the cheap mass destruction.
Nature Ritual + Wall of Reflection I'm not sure about. It deals 8 damage and heals 8 life for 2 earth mana. Which can be strong, but I don't think a ban was necessary.
Modified by panderson on 2010-05-02 15:53:27 | Wavelength | 2010-05-03 02:39:01 |
Nature Ritual + Wall of Reflection I'm not sure about. It deals 8 damage and heals 8 life for 2 earth mana. Which can be strong, but I don't think a ban was necessary.
It deals 8 extra damage, heals you 8 life, AND protects you from 8 more damage, all for your turn and 2 Earth mana. That's a net gain of 16 life plus 8 direct damage to the enemy; although both are in "slow motion", I feel this was a smart ban.
| Yaksha | 2010-05-03 03:13:37 |
Is wall of reflection banned with other healing cards? Like from the specialty classes?
Sorcery 1 also means you deal 8 extra damage, protects you from 8 more damage. It's half the cost AND heals two other creatures (which could be more walls of reflection).
What about magic hamster?
| jazzfish | 2010-05-03 03:49:33 |
Is wall of reflection banned with other healing cards? Like from the specialty classes?
I know Illusion is kind of a crummy house these days, but Wall of Reflection is still considered a specialty card, so you're not gonna see it with Sorc 1 or Beast 1. :)
| wiggin | 2010-05-03 08:33:54 |
...
It deals 8 extra damage, heals you 8 life, AND protects you from 8 more damage, all for your turn and 2 Earth mana. That's a net gain of 16 life plus 8 direct damage to the enemy; although both are in "slow motion", I feel this was a smart ban.
Ah yes, you're right. It probably makes sense. | Yaksha | 2010-05-04 00:34:18 |
...
I know Illusion is kind of a crummy house these days, but Wall of Reflection is still considered a specialty card, so you're not gonna see it with Sorc 1 or Beast 1. :)
oh yeah, ops... forgot about that. I guess there isn't any other easy/cheap heal creatures from the element cards | ionasku | 2010-05-07 12:05:54 |
The following special house combinations are banned: Greater
Demon + Armageddon Armageddon + Wall of Reflection Nature
Ritual + Wall of Reflection Meditation + Cursed Fog Ice
Golem + Cursed Fog
Greater
Demon + Armageddon - appropriate
Armageddon + Wall of Reflection - appropriate
Nature
Ritual + Wall of Reflection - is it so destructive?
Meditation + Cursed Fog - nonsense or developer encourage Sea Sprite and Fog combi
Ice
Golem + Cursed Fog - is it so destructive?
Do they dislike Cursed Fog,or entire Death? If Greater Demon+Armageddon is banned,It's nonsense to limit Grater Demon's special damage less or equal 10 when come on stage.
| Yaksha | 2010-05-18 01:43:19 |
If Greater Demon+Armageddon is banned,It's nonsense to limit Grater Demon's special damage less or equal 10 when come on stage.
I assume the limit comes first - limited to 10 damage because otherwise Greater Demon on its own has the potential to be very unbalaced
Meditation + Cursed Fog - nonsense or developer encourage Sea Sprite and Fog combi
Ice Golem + Cursed Fog - is it so destructive?
I'm not sure what the sea sprite + fog combo is.
But the ban with meditation is because cursed fog costs only 2. This means you can spam cursed fog at the beginning of the game, and use meditation to build up your elemental powers. Compare with acid rain, which deals 15 damage but costs 8.
Ice Golem - it's immune to cursed rain. It's one of the only two cards immune to spell damage. If you use ice golems, then youc an spam cursed fog every two turns against the opponent and not have your own creatures damaged. Since you have ice golem, obviously the opponent doesn't have it.
Nature Ritual + Wall of Reflection - is it so destructive?
I think because nature ritual is one of the few waysy ou can heal monsters using elemental decks, and it's cheap.
Someone explained it previous as, for two mana you can:
- 8 extra points of blocking
- 8 extra points of damage
- 8 extra health points
Which makes it a bit umba
I assume the limit comes first - limited to 10 damage because otherwise Greater Demon on its own has the potential to be very unbalaced
But the ban with meditation is because cursed fog costs only 2. This means you can spam cursed fog at the beginning of the game, and use meditation to build up your elemental powers. Compare with acid rain, which deals 15 damage but costs 8.
Ice Golem - it's immune to cursed rain. It's one of the only two cards immune to spell damage. If you use ice golems, then youc an spam cursed fog every two turns against the opponent and not have your own creatures damaged. Since you have ice golem, obviously the opponent doesn't have it. #Greater Demon I hope Greater Demon's damage limit to 12.If the combination is banned,it's appropriate. #Cursed Fog You should treat special power three-seconds as basic one. e.g. F12 Dragon = B8 Ancient Dragon Basically,Cursed Fog spam is suicidal way.Most creature have over 12 lives,besides Meditation and Fog don't place creature.You lose creatures,life,and most precious power,besides enemy have creature in slot,you have no one after spamming. If there is Ice Golem & Fog combination then under 17 life creature can't damage golem within spamming,but spamming at most 2 or 3 turns,and no creature place.Does 1 or 2 Golem make big damage within 2-3 turns? it's not so destructive. I suggest Cursed fog cost to 3 and Banshee cost to 2,and lift of the ban,halve fog damage to death creatures. Note:Cost 3 fog deprive death powers to place creatures.
| Yaksha | 2010-05-20 02:52:00 |
Basically,Cursed Fog spam is suicidal way.Most creature have over 12 lives,besides Meditation and Fog don't place creature.You lose creatures,life,and most precious power,besides enemy have creature in slot,you have no one after spamming.
You're missing the point entirely. Cursed fog spam means most low-end creates won't survive two of them. Your opponent is playing creatures, so they are essentially lossing mana.
Where as you are not wasting any elemental mana. If you could meditate. Then you can use cursed fog to keep the field clear, your opponent will waste mana playing monsters that will only get killed (they wont' have meditation since you have it. Most other spells wno't be terribly efficient/useful at this point). And after a few rounds of it, you would have high elemental mana because you haven't used it and have been meditating.
It is destruction. Which is why it's a banned combo.
btw, you don't lose any creatures because you aren't placing any. You may be a bit lower on health but the idea is that you will be a lot higher on elemental mana.
If there is Ice Golem & Fog combination then under 17 life creature can't damage golem within spamming,but spamming at most 2 or 3 turns,and no creature place.Does 1 or 2 Golem make big damage within 2-3 turns?
I think golum + cursed fog isn't nessasarily for the start of the game. You can get a few golems on the board, then spam cursed fog.
It kills opponent creatues, easily giving you board control. I do think that was the point.
The other point is, if you have golem your opponent does not. I assume the ban was partly put in place because if you have the golem + cursed fog advantage, then it also means your opponent does not have the golem to help counter cursed fog. The two together means golem + cursed fog was deemed rather umba.
Despite death showed fog,opponent don't take appropriate way that mean he is amateur.
Well,there is deep problem about banning.
Illusionist have 50% chance to get Natural Ritual compared to others .
Necromancer have 50% chance to get Armageddon,Meditation,Ice Golem compared to ohers.
If both class have card which cause ban,then they are limited possibility come from cards not only banned combination.
Death have half chance of using Ice Golem&Stone Rain combi,Illusion can't heal other creature with Natural Ritual when he has wall.
Besides,opponent predict what cards Illusion/Death have more easily.
Banning distort equality.
I go against any kind of ban without really destructive.
I think it is Reflection Wall+Armageddon only.
1% rule:Outside of fire 1-8 and Air 6-8, if you have a card, there is less than 1% chance you also have the adjacent card, one higher/lower. (For the basic houses.)
I have checked almost a hundred time with hotseat. Phoenix adjacent combination occurred only one time.It's probably 1% exception. F6/F7 occurred at short intervals.It's anomaly. Any other F1-8 adjacent combinations somewhat rare. I have hypothesis that 1st,2nd,3rd deal is under adjacent ban rule,and 4th arbitrary deal card disregards adjacent ban.
| victorvndoom | 2010-07-08 21:33:31 |
simple pull the banned cards from the random selection of the draw so people wont use it
| Yaksha | 2010-07-09 07:13:48 |
I don't get what you are saying. Pulling combination from the draw is exactly how the ban is enforced - by making sure that combination of cards is never drawn.
| victorvndoom | 2010-07-12 15:07:01 |
I don't get what you are saying. Pulling combination from the draw is exactly how the ban is enforced - by making sure that combination of cards is never drawn. ah ok, is the banning inside the game activated when you play vs someone . I can still used banned combos vs the ai
| Yaksha | 2010-07-14 03:00:21 |
hmm...
no, the banning is when the cards are drawn, certain combos are cards are never drawn.
However when you play against the AI, sometimes card draws are broken. For example, there are some matches in the tournament that randomize your cards - that means you can get banned combos. Some matches that specify you don't get certain cards or get certain cards. If you play through the storyline, this is even more profound because there are many 'special' matches.
In a match against other players, or against the AI with no special rules affecting what cards you get (like single match against archmage), those combos should be not appearing
| CaparroZ | 2010-08-30 00:19:22 |
Can someone explain me why cursed fog + med is banned?
| Wavelength | 2010-08-30 04:19:20 |
Can someone explain me why cursed fog + med is banned? I assume it's so you can't gain mana by giving up board control via Meditation, then just blow the place sky high with repeated Cursed Fog-s. Having said that, since Cursed Fog can only deal 12 damage a turn, I don't see any reasonable scenario where someone would actually want to do this.
Modified by Wavelength on 2010-08-30 04:19:51 | Yaksha | 2010-09-06 23:45:05 |
hmm... It doesn't seem like a very smart way to play.
But look at it this way, if you were spamming a Cursed Fog every turn. Then every turn all monsters on the board lose 12 hp... which is pretty high, especially at the start of the game:
1. What are you going to do every other turn? You can't play any monsters, cause they'll just get chewed up by your own cursed fog. You should stick to playing spell cards. And what's the best spammable spell card while you 'wait'? Meditation.
2. What can the opponent do when you are spamming -12hp to every monster on the board every two turns? They shouldn't play any weak monsters. So until later in the game and they have more mana to go in for the kill, they have to play spell cards. Meditation would be most helpful.
| Wavelength | 2010-09-07 19:48:58 |
2. What can the opponent do when you are spamming -12hp to every monster on the board every two turns? They shouldn't play any weak monsters. So until later in the game and they have more mana to go in for the kill, they have to play spell cards. Meditation would be most helpful. Creatures that are feasible in the first four turns and net you some kind of advantage if your opponent is repeatedly playing Cursed Fog include Goblin Berserker, Goblin Shaman, Ice Golem, Steel Golem, Griffin, Insanian Peacekeeper, Insanian Berserker, Wolverine, Lemure, Ergodemon, Keeper of Death, Priest of Fire, Giant Turtle (especially if you also have Nature Ritual), Wall of Lightnings (especially if you also have NR), and Wall of Reflections. There are a lot of spells that are defensible moves against it, too (especially Meditation, Overtime, and Sacrifice, but also certain damage spells). Modified by Wavelength on 2010-09-07 19:50:53 |
