| Floofy | 2010-07-25 21:22:24 |
Time WIzard!
For all of the time cards, when you play them, you can play another non-house card just after that. (Its not the same mechanic as ancient giant)
1: Freeze: Target creature is frozen for one turn. play another non house card (there is no action phase yet)
2: Time warrior: 1/11. Time warrior deal 2 damage to opponement each turn. play another non house card
3: Quick heal: Heal 13 life to yourself, play another non house card
4: Quick lightning: Deal 9 damage to opponement, play another non house card
5: Cure: Completly heal target creature and heal all other creatures 2 life. play another non house card
6: Destroy: Freeze target creature, and also deal 21 damage to it. play another non house card
7: Time Wizard: 6/33. If time wizard is casted in front of an elemental creature, you gain 5 power of that element. play another non house card
8: Time Master: 7/42. When time master enters plays, all ennemy creatures are frozen for one turn (just like sorcery 7 does). play another non house card
Modified by Floofy on 2010-07-26 16:05:24 | MystiqueII | 2010-07-25 21:50:02 |
Very nice Idea, i like that Class!!! 0 seems to be quite useless, though... What about: You get 1 random Standard-Element. Play another Card... Or alternatively a passive/permanent Ability: Whenever you skip a Turn, you get 1 Time Mana, where Skipping a turn after having played a Time Card does also count... Additionaly I'd change the Time Warrior to 0/13
Modified by MystiqueII on 2010-07-25 21:52:47 | Floofy | 2010-07-25 22:00:41 |
I disagree, i think 0 is an extremely strong spell because you constantly threaten to do armageddon, air 6, etc. It might be too strong. You can just cast that on a fire creature and then BOOM armageddon.
about time warrior, you might be right i'm not sure...
| MystiqueII | 2010-07-25 22:34:21 |
I still dont find it realistically useful: You sacrifice a Creature and convert highly important and valuable Special mana into Standard Mana... I dont think that i would use that Opportunity... But of course, thats only my personal Oppinion... What could also be a nice Variation of the Time Warrior was: 2/9 Time warrior deals 2 damage to Opponement each turn. Time Warrior attacks the Turn it comes into play. Play another card This could be a nice finisher: First you play armageddon or Stone Rain and clear the Board, then you play 1,2,3,4,X Time Warriors, and finish the Opponent before he is able to regenerate...
Modified by MystiqueII on 2010-07-25 23:14:09 | Floofy | 2010-07-25 23:14:40 |
well i never said it sacrifice the creature....? but it wouldn't be a terrible idea since the current version might be overpowered.
Your version of time warrior would be overpowered imo Modified by Floofy on 2010-07-25 23:22:31 | MystiqueII | 2010-07-26 01:26:26 |
Ah, now i understand what you mean... Sorry for misinterpreting you^^
So, what you are actually Proposing, is converting Special Mana into Standard Mana...
Hm, still not very useful in my Oppinion. It might have its uses, but since Special Mana is worth between 1.5 and 2x Standard Mana, it would be a pretty bad Deal... The Card you are able to play faster by such a Move is paid with an empty Special Pool...
But since you find it overpowered, it would be interesting to hear other Voices...
Well, theoretically you are right when you are saying that the 2/9 Time Warior would be overpowered.
BUT its also highly vulerable. Every Mass Destruction Spell in the Game, and thats a Lot (Flame Wave, Inferno, Armageddon, Acid Rain, Stone Rain, Chain Lightning + several Special Spells) will be able to kill them at once, so you would have to be very careful when to play them, and the Opponent would have to consider that Possibility.
So, it would be a highly strategic Card: Strong, but difficult to play... I'd like that...
Suddenly drastically increasing the size of an elemental, or threatening a huge lightning bolt or arma seems useful.
It's a card that'd have very situational uses, but when used, it could be deadly. Imagine losing to an 15 point bolt when your opponent started the turn with 0 Air mana!
Time 3 is too strong, I think. 1 more life and 2 less mana for a free turn instead of 8 mana. Maybe if it was time 4.
6 is an amazing card if you're targetting something with no opposition. cheap tornado and a free turn? Seem a bit amazing to me.
7 seems kind of weak, though it'd essentially be giving you super meditations, which isn't awful.
Also, make it so you can't chain time cards, I'd think. Dropping a field full of time 2 would be obnoxious if you couldn't deal with it ASAP. | Floofy | 2010-07-26 02:00:44 |
Time 3.....
Lets assume special mana is worth 1.7x...
Holy 5 cost 8.5, gives you 8 and 12 life
So, for a turn and 0.5 mana, you get 12 life
Time 3 cost 5, gives you 13 life
So for 5 mana, you get 13 life
a turn is probably worth less than 5 mana, so it seems fine
| Wavelength | 2010-07-26 05:13:21 |
So, the idea is quite novel, and you got the right general direction by making the cards underpowered by themselves but allowing the player to play extra cards in a turn. The problem is, I think you end up running the gamut between average and broken, based on how good "value" your cards are (since mana will be your biggest constraint with this class). It's a good thing the class' spells and creatures don't particularly encourage the rush, because free turns would be sick with a rush strategy.
The balance seems nearly right on each card, but I'd need to see it in practice to know whether the class would be overpowered, because I have a hunch that it would be and I can't really explain why.
0: My least favorite card in your set, mainly because it's a zero-cost card. The effect is too powerful and too versatile to be free, in my opinion. That being said, it's a cool effect. Can you think of any way to attach it to a mid-high cost creature?
2: If its attack were any greater than 1, I'd be really worried. I still think that at Cost 2, it's too spammable. As the game winds down, you could drop one of these in front of each enemy creature, and since it's got more than 9 HP, it's tough to sweep. Meanwhile, you do damage to every one of their creatures! Now, on the other hand, this is not the kind of card you could play in the early game outside of a rush, becuase it would be somewhat of a waste. I really want to say there's something wrong here, but I can't, you did a really nice job balancing it.
3: I like this card. In practice, it would work a lot like an expensive version of Faerie Sage. My guess for balance would be 12 life.
4: Really weak on paper, but opponents would have to play around this, because they're now always nine points closer to being finished by Chain Lightning or Armageddon or Natural Fury. With Dragon, this would be positively vicious. At 8 special mana, this becomes 18 points closer to any type of defeat. I'm not sure about this one.
5: This would usually be useless, but in rare situations it would be quite useful. I'm thinking it might be worth it to switch with 4. Would that overpower it?
6: So, does the creature you destroy have to have a creature in front of it in order for you to use this card? If not, this is absurdly overpowered. If so, this would be underpowered, except when in combination with Time 2, in which case it would be decent.
7: I know it's a lot more expensive than Energy Beast, but compare the "turn skip" ability to E-Beast's activated ability, and this effect is looking a little overpowered (it's an interesting effect, though). Especially in combination with Time 2, it would be evil. Every turn you could put down a Time 2, then skip your turn, thus getting a creature on the board and getting a Mind Master effect (+2) on every mana pool except Time (+0). I'd recommend having it increase all your basic mana by 1 rather than all mana, but perhaps you have some other strategy in mind for this card?
8: Freezing your opponent's attacks isn't even that necessary when you're already able to block two creatures at once. This card is going to be very defensive and probably won't win a lot of games. I don't see why its stats are lower than Time 7's!
0: Time Swap: Select a creature on the board. You loose all your special mana, and its converted into that element. Play another card (there is no action phase yet) 2: Time warrior: 1/11. Time warrior deal 2 damage to opponement each turn. Play another card 3: Quick heal: Heal 13 life to yourself, play another card 4: Quick lightning: Deal 9 damage to opponement, play another card 5: Cure: Completly heal target creature. play another card 6: Destroy: Kill target creature, and the creature in front of it. Play another card 7: Time Wizard: 7/39. While time wizard is in play, skipping your turn gives you 1 power to everything. play another card 8: Time Master: 6/38. When time master enters plays, all ennemy creatures are frozen for one turn (just like sorcery 7 does). play another card
Time Swap.. there should really be no 0 cost spells, imo. This is imbalanced and too game-changing, imo. Time Warrior.. way too weak. just deals damage to opponent? Really, compare this to Chaos 0. That averages 3.5 to opponent and is 4/15 Quick Heal.. okay Quick lightning.. maybe up this to 10 damage Cure.. way too weak Destroy... balanced Time Wizard... balanced Time Master...weak I think this would be a fun class but are you intending to limit the extra turn to just one extra turn per round or could you link together a bunch of turns. For example if I saved up 12 special mana could I burn out 3 quick lightnings for 27 points of damage and then another damage card like chain lightning or lightning bolt. If so that may make it overpowered and potentially broken with either dragon or a string of fairy apprentices. Otherwise it looks good.
I think its a good mechanic and on balance like how much to do damage etc, if this were really being made it would be play tested.
However, the particular card choices strike me as problematic.
Here is how I would play:
Pure aggro. Put attacking creatures in unopposed slots, etc. The opponent won't know if I have 3 or 4, so by the time I get to 8-9 special I can either quick lightning times 2 + chain lightning/air 6/fire 11. If the opponent goes full into healing mode I can instead do something else or heal 39 + play another card. It's an expensive use of special mana for sure. Plus if the opponent ever board clears with no more sweeps, a pure aggro style goes well with dropping 4 time warriors plus another creature.
Plus as wavelength notes lightning plus dragon = opponent's just need dragon to survive one turn really and its a quick game.
It's less elegant, but these card choices seem to force the necessity of changing the language to "play another non-house card".
oh I like the concept of 7 (although I don't think I'd ever play it in the current version).
I think 8 should also have a skipping turn mechanic. For elegance of style between 7/8
| Floofy | 2010-07-26 16:08:02 |
Ok i have updated the class based on some of the comments.
0: was a somewhat good idea but way too problematic as a "0" so i've changed it into a creature.
I've also decided to use the "non house card" since it seems to make more sense.
This makes time 2 and 4 more balanced
i've buffed time 5 a little, and nerfed time 6
| Zannoland | 2010-07-31 07:48:49 |
1 is quite useless if you compare it to cards such as madness, paladin, and dark ritual, none of which are very good cards either
| Floofy | 2010-07-31 14:10:22 |
I don't think its useless....
i think freezing hydra can be very usefull
Also, say theres 2 unblocked creatures, freezing a creatures which has 9 attack is basicelly the same as healing yourself 9 life, which is a lot better than time 3.
i'm pretty sure i would use that more than madness or paladin
| Wavelength | 2010-07-31 22:24:49 |
1 would certainly have uses and looks pretty good.
| Zannoland | 2010-08-01 04:29:47 |
putting a hydra on like does seem tempting but that's going to be a permanent drain on your house. hydra takes way more than 7 turns to get off the board normally, which is how much it costs to annihilate it with mindstealer.
have you ever considered going the opposite way? i.e: summon a creature, it will attack this turn.
that seems like it would be a lot more powerful than stunlocking the board because as we've all figured out by now you can almost never have enough direct damage in your deck.
| Floofy | 2010-08-01 05:13:28 |
First of all, comparing it with mindstealer is kinda stupid since mindstealer is basicelly the best hydra counter in the game.....
Also, you compare a cost 1 spell with a cost 7 creature.... the more costly the spells are, the better they are, which is normal.... you can do this spell any time during the game, control 7, you cant.
There are tons of situations where this spell would be really usefull
Few examples:
An important creature of yours (mind master or something) is facing an high attack creature such as bargul, and you fear it will die next turn and you don't have any ways to kill the bargul, and no way to heal your mind master. Well this spell can save you
Also imagine opponement has an early lightning cloud, and it is about to kill 2 of your creatures, including an important ice golem, well it seems this spell would be really usefull (not to mention, it indirectly heals you 4 life), all of this for 1 special mana, and you don't even need to waste a turn.
But it is obviously not a spell that you will use every turns.... Modified by Floofy on 2010-08-01 05:26:10 | wiggin | 2010-08-01 12:14:53 |
I think it is rather overpowered actually. You can also safe your weak Master Healer, Astral Guard or Mind Master from attack every turn. Modified by wiggin on 2010-08-01 12:16:01 | Wavelength | 2010-08-01 16:00:33 |
I think it is rather overpowered actually. You can also safe your weak Master Healer, Astral Guard or Mind Master from attack every turn. Good point by Wiggin here. This card would be absolutely cruel in combination with those two cards, as well as Master Healer. It would also be pretty great with (surprise!) Bargul. And of course, it would counter the first ~7 effective turns of an Elemental buff strategy, until the opponent got a second Ele out on the board. I like the design on the card but I'm starting to agree it might be overpowered. I like Zanno's suggestion, the problem being that it would be even more overpowered.
| Floofy | 2010-08-01 17:29:46 |
I think i should change it to
1: Freeze: Target creature is frozen for one turn. creature in front of it gets 3 damage. play another non house card (there is no action phase yet)
It would still be usefull, but not broken
| Wavelength | 2010-08-01 19:19:20 |
I don't like that; occasionally, it will defeat the purpose of the card.
I'd rather see something be situationally overpowered than clumsy, personally.
| Zannoland | 2010-08-02 17:05:30 |
@wiggin: you do have a point about astral guard, but in most cases paladin spam would be just as good except for the fact that paladin spam isn't good. @wavelength: the card wouldn't be significantly more powerful than hypnosis. most creatures have 4 attack, so that works out to an average of 12 damage for equal mana, and it lacks real strength of hypnosis which is preventing the opponent from overloading the board with high attack creatures. and if you use it against creatures instead, then it becomes significantly less valuable.
| Wavelength | 2010-08-02 17:09:19 |
@wavelength: the card wouldn't be significantly more powerful than hypnosis. most creatures have 4 attack, so that works out to an average of 12 damage for equal mana, and it lacks real strength of hypnosis which is preventing the opponent from overloading the board with high attack creatures. and if you use it against creatures instead, then it becomes significantly less valuable.
This card wouldn't be significantly more powerful than hypnosys, but hypnosys is a completely different card with a completely different use and I don't see why you're making a comparison between the two. Did I say something about Hypnosys at some point? Also, this card costs 1, whereas Hypnosys costs 3.
| Zannoland | 2010-08-02 17:29:00 |
...
This card wouldn't be significantly more powerful than hypnosys, but hypnosys is a completely different card with a completely different use and I don't see why you're making a comparison between the two. Did I say something about Hypnosys at some point? Also, this card costs 1, whereas Hypnosys costs 3.
Well when I read these threads I try and evaluate these theoretical cards in relationship to house cards that exist. In most situations I would use this spell for the same reasons I use hypnosis, to damage the opponent.
Yeah its too bad the card is just too good, cause it was my favorite.
How about target unopposed (no creature in opposite slot) is frozen?
Its still really good in the late game when you have plenty of other house mana and can play freeze every turn to completely stop one creature. Before the end game, probably less useful.
| Wavelength | 2010-08-02 19:03:02 |
... Well when I read these threads I try and evaluate these theoretical cards in relationship to house cards that exist. In most situations I would use this spell for the same reasons I use hypnosis, to damage the opponent.
It could be used for direct damage but more often I'd use it for creature removal, and I'd also use it every single time with Hydra or Lightning Cloud (and occasionally with Forest Sprite). Hypnosys, on the other hand, is only for direct damage, costs 3 mana, takes your turn, and relies on your opponent having powerful creatures (instead of relying on YOU having powerful creatures). I'm not trying to argue how different they are (which I do think they are), but rather illustrate how versatile your proposed Time 1 would be, and thus why it's unfortunately so overpowered, because it's a cool idea. Yeah its too bad the card is just too good, cause it was my favorite.
How about target unopposed (no creature in opposite slot) is frozen?
Its still really good in the late game when you have plenty of other house mana and can play freeze every turn to completely stop one creature. Before the end game, probably less useful. That would probably balance it (and maybe make it a little underpowered) but would make it a lot less fun to use. | Floofy | 2010-08-02 20:30:47 |
Yeah its too bad the card is just too good, cause it was my favorite.
How about target unopposed (no creature in opposite slot) is frozen?
Its still really good in the late game when you have plenty of other house mana and can play freeze every turn to completely stop one creature. Before the end game, probably less useful. Not a bad idea, but i prefer my idea of damaging the creature in front of it.
That just isn't elegant though, and has three points to understand, effect a, effect b, and can play another card. No other card does that. Whatever is the ideal solution, it should involve less wording.
| wiggin | 2010-08-05 14:26:44 |
@wiggin: you do have a point about astral guard, but in most cases paladin spam would be just as good except for the fact that paladin spam isn't good.
No because that also uses your turn. | 
