| Floofy | 2010-07-15 13:37:45 |
Here's an idea i had that i want to share
We all know that in spectro, once you reach a high level like Sealata, its very difficult to get a game, and if you do, its usually against the same people. Even at mid levels it can be difficult at times, especially because lower levels are usually not interested in playing higher levels (the small xp gain does not make up for the large skill difference). So i had this idea
"Rank". We would have a level AND a rank. maximum level would be 10, and no maximun rank. if you gain a level while being level 10, you go down to level 1 and gain a rank.
When you would play someone one rank below you, your opponement would get an handicap
Example:
1 rank difference: Better player starts with -5 life, and weaker player starts with +5 life
2 rank difference: Better player starts with -5 life and -1 to a random power, and weaker player starts with +5 life and +1 to a random power
and so on
Obviously, people of the same rank would just play a normal game.
XP would work just like in the normal game. A level 10 class 1 playing against a level 1 class 2 would get an xp penatly, even thought his opponement is actually better. Level 5 class 1, vs level 5 class 4, would be even XP (even if in reality, its basicelly a level 5 playing a level 45...) Modified by Floofy on 2010-07-15 13:39:04 | Wavelength | 2010-07-15 15:29:23 |
Not such a bad idea but here's what I don't get: why not just make the adjustments to the starting position based on level (say, if your levels are more than 10 apart), rather than complicate things through having Level AND Rank?
| Floofy | 2010-07-15 19:54:08 |
Actually your right lol
Think it might be difficult to balance.
A level 12 facing a level 2 player is probably going to be able to overcome a 10 life swing, though it would affect the life-focused classes like Illusion more. But what's a fair adjustment that doesn't hurt any classes? Hard to say.
| Wavelength | 2010-07-21 14:00:03 |
A level 12 facing a level 2 player is probably going to be able to overcome a 10 life swing, though it would affect the life-focused classes like Illusion more. But what's a fair adjustment that doesn't hurt any classes? Hard to say. I'd be shocked if the level 12 player won less than 90% of their games under this system.
| anonypro | 2010-07-21 16:16:26 |
How about one card that makes the player automatically lose? And obviously they don't know which it is. Make it a bit like russian roulette..
| Floofy | 2010-07-21 16:35:36 |
That would be really boring and stupid =/
Here are some possible ideas:
Additionnal ressource at the beginning of the game
Different starting life
Maybe even the option of the weaker player starting with a minor creature on the board, such as a scambled lemure.
Maybe the option to ask archmage for advice a few times during the game
Or maybe something like "Every 7 turn, when the stronger player begins his turn, he loose 1 special element power"
| Klugscheisser | 2010-07-22 01:28:43 |
I like the idea of some kind of handicap system, but what is preventing high level players from using an alt account to try and beat their peers easily with handicap and make them lose exp ?
| Wavelength | 2010-07-22 15:21:33 |
I like the idea of some kind of handicap system, but what is preventing high level players from using an alt account to try and beat their peers easily with handicap and make them lose exp ? The same thing which is currently preventing them from playing lower level players on even ground and making them lose exp. (In other words, nothing.)
| Floofy | 2010-07-25 01:45:50 |
i think i have the best idea ever for balancing the xp gain during a match
Say a level 15 plays with a level 21. The game could check for the last 2000 games or so between a level 21 and a level 15, and see the winning %.
If the level 21 wins, he gets a number of points equal to the win % of the level 15 in this situation.
If the level 15 wins, he gets a number of points equal to the win % of the level 21 in this situation.
So in this example, say level 21s on average wins 68% of the time against level 15s, a level 21 would gain 32 points when they win and loose 68 points when they loose.
With this system, we would not even need a "level cap" since it wouldn't matter who we play: If we play better than our own level of play, we go up, else, we go down. Modified by Floofy on 2010-07-25 01:50:44 | Floofy | 2010-07-25 02:37:27 |
Btw, i would add that, with the current system, if i ONLY play the lowest level i can play i would probably reach level 25-26, but if i ONLY played the strongest level i can play, i would probably go down to level 15 or 16.... Modified by Floofy on 2010-07-25 02:38:09 | Wavelength | 2010-07-25 06:07:17 |
i think i have the best idea ever for balancing the xp gain during a match Say a level 15 plays with a level 21. The game could check for the last 2000 games or so between a level 21 and a level 15, and see the winning %. If the level 21 wins, he gets a number of points equal to the win % of the level 15 in this situation. If the level 15 wins, he gets a number of points equal to the win % of the level 21 in this situation. So in this example, say level 21s on average wins 68% of the time against level 15s, a level 21 would gain 32 points when they win and loose 68 points when they loose. With this system, we would not even need a "level cap" since it wouldn't matter who we play: If we play better than our own level of play, we go up, else, we go down.
I've got to say, in theory at least, that is perfectly balanced. I'd say go ahead and keep track of the entire history of games (it would only require two variables for each pair of levels, I think), and use that percentage instead. There's just one problem: this would be really toxic when people are just starting on an alternate account. If I'm a Level 20 playing on a Level 8 alternate account, and you're a level 18, you should probably get 60 points for beating me (as a level 20) and lose 40 if I defeat you, but instead, you'll probably get 15 for a win and lose 85 for a defeat, which is pretty unfair and would negatively affect you much more than in the current system. People might end up being afraid to play people lower than them! So the question becomes this, if we used your system and unchained the level restrictions so that any level could play any other level (with the approrpriate experience differences), then would people stop playing alternate accounts?
| MystiqueII | 2010-07-25 11:30:38 |
I personally find alternate Accounts a bad Idea anyway.
They just give a wrong Impression of the Game. Ive already played several Matches against Low-Level Guys, who played a perfect Match. And to be honest, i hardly play any Low-Level Guys anymore, who dont have a lot more Experience, than they should on their current Levels.
If i didnt knew that this was the Xths Generation of Accounts, i would probably have stopped playing already.
Just imagine you are new to this game, and get totally beaten by the very low Lv Players. You would get the Impression that you are very badly skilled, and hadnt any Chances to play higher Classes...
I am really sorry for the few Players, who really start with a new Lv 1 Account, and end up with terrible Scores...
In the Case of the Model Floofy suggested, which is very good by the Way, I'd propose that Players are always classified by their highest Account.
| Wavelength | 2010-07-25 15:40:40 |
I don't think alternate accounts are quite the problem you make them out to be. However, I think this is a superb idea: In the Case of the Model Floofy suggested, which is very good by the Way, I'd propose that Players are always classified by their highest Account.
| Floofy | 2010-07-25 15:58:18 |
First of all, i think most alts would stop since people would be able to play on their main accounts. Myself, i do some alts because sometimes i can't play on my own.
Secondly, you can always check the stats on the account and if its an alt you don't play it.
I don't think people will be afraid of playing people lower than them, they will be afraid of playing people with no stats :P Modified by Floofy on 2010-07-25 16:24:49 | Floofy | 2010-07-25 16:03:41 |
Finally the best way to solve this is the GLICKO system
math.bu.edu/people/mg/glicko/glicko.doc/glicko
In short, this system adjust the ammount of xp you win or loose based on how signifiant the game is.
Example: A 405/387 level 7 plays with a 1020/980 level 15. This game is very signifiant, and the normal xp gain/loss will apply. But if a 405/387 level 7 plays with a 0-0 level 1, the level 7, who's clearly a real level 7, will not get much change to his xp gain or loss (its not a good idea to significantly change his rating based on a game done against someone who's not really rated). However, the level 1, if he wins, will get a lot of points, since he just beats a real level 7! but if he loose, he will loose a lot of points since the system assume its likely he is not as good as a level 7.
This system is used on chesstempo. Basicelly if you create a new account, your rating will quickly change (if you keep loosing, it will go down fast, and if you keep winning, it will go up fast) so you can quickly do problems adapted to your skill level and your games will not affect the problem's rating much.
At the opposite, if youve played a lot of games and your rated 1705, if you try out a new problem, your rating will not change much, but the problem's rating will actually change a lot. They think "hey a a real 1705 just beat that new problem and it was rated 1800.... it must be overated lets lower it down a lot!". but lets not increase the 1705's rating much since that problem was probably overrated anyways
if we apply this to spectro, lets say Sealata plays a long time level 5 who played over 1000 games, he would probably win something like 10 points and loose something like 100 points. But if he plays a new account, he will probably win a single point and loose like 10 points.... But the new account will win a tons of points if he beats sealata Modified by Floofy on 2010-07-25 16:27:41 | MystiqueII | 2010-07-25 17:26:37 |
Secondly, you can always check the stats on the account and if its an alt you don't play it.
Theoretically, yes. But i dont think anybody has the Passion to
check the Stats of every single Player about the own Level before
proposing a Duel.
Not to mention the autosearch...
But you are right: If the Xp Loss against high Level Players
would be significantly reduced, low Level Players would have much less
restraints to play them...
| Floofy | 2010-07-25 19:13:54 |
not only would the xp loss be reduced, but the xp gain would be increased
Theoricelly, a level 25 facing a level 5, i would guess the level 5 would be able to gain 95 points!! and loose only 5 points.
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