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I want to like this card. But it is trying really hard to not let me. I think it needs more damage or cheaper cost. Maybe 5 damage?
Thoughts?
I also want sorcerer to have creatures. Cause at least one game I got creature hosed and had to try to kill the opponent with fire 1, 5; water, 6, 12; air 5, earth, 1, 5, 11. Hard to get board presence!
| Wavelength | 2010-01-30 05:57:19 |
I want to like this card. But it is trying really hard to not let me. I think it needs more damage or cheaper cost. Maybe 5 damage?
Thoughts?
My thought is that Sorcery 4 doesn't do damage! Are you thinking Sorcery 3? 5 damage might be okay but I think 4 might be okay too. Think about it--you can knock off a creature without using your own creature's attack (especially nice if you don't HAVE a creature there to get the kill) and you get a free Overtime effect while you're at it. Now, you have to sacrifice a turn where you're not creating any new board presence, and you're only shaving off a fraction of a turn worth of opponent's board presence, so that makes it very situational, much like Meditation or Overtime (after the first four turns). I still like Steal Essence as a card. I also want sorcerer to have creatures. Cause at least one game I got creature hosed and had to try to kill the opponent with fire 1, 5; water, 6, 12; air 5, earth, 1, 5, 11. Hard to get board presence! Absolutely not! The whole point of Sorcerer is that you have to enhance or protect the few creatures you CAN get out there. That's why its cards are so good in a vacuum. | wiggin | 2010-01-30 09:02:23 |
I want to like this card. But it is trying really hard to not let me. I think it needs more damage or cheaper cost. Maybe 5 damage?
Thoughts?
I also want sorcerer to have creatures. Cause at least one game I got creature hosed and had to try to kill the opponent with fire 1, 5; water, 6, 12; air 5, earth, 1, 5, 11. Hard to get board presence! I agree fully with the OP. I also like the idea of sorcery 3, but it's so rare that you can use it, and that can really hurt sorcery if you need to play something with your special mana. (Sorcery 1 is often useless, and sorcery 5 is very situational.) I too hate the games where you have no creatures that actually hit properly. It becomes too much of a weird exercise in advancing your odd creatures. Plynx used to sometime handicap himself, and he would for instance say he had to make the winning strike with an Elvish Healer (back then it had 1 in attack.) It feels like that. I see the point of the class being all spells, but it could easily be worked around by "Summon Minions".
Modified by wiggin on 2010-01-30 09:04:12 | Fail22 | 2010-01-30 09:57:05 |
Yes Sorcery 3.
I get the use of the card, but its situational + small effect. I'd much rather have overtime. I think it could be a cool card but right now it falls flat for me. Half the time you can use it its not a good play.
Maybe they can affect the draw with sorcery so you are guaranteed at least one creature with 5 attack. Sorcery isn't weak or anything overall to me, but damn if you get half your element cards as spells, and no creature support, that is a weird game.
| Kaylee | 2010-01-31 04:47:30 |
Weird games are the best ones!
| Wavelength | 2010-02-01 07:14:17 |
You'd need to make an entire pair (1/2, 3/4, 5/6, or 7/8) of cards into creatures to have any effect. Yes, they could be creatures that improve your spells or take advantage of spells somehow, or it could be something cute and gimmicky like Wiggin's "Summon Minions", but I think the small number of creatures combined with the great power of spells is what makes Sorcerer such a fun class to play. Why change what works?
| wiggin | 2010-02-01 10:03:20 |
You'd need to make an entire pair (1/2, 3/4, 5/6, or 7/8) of cards into creatures to have any effect. Actually the first change would make the most difference, and subsequent ones gradually less.
To answer Wavelength's question... ...because some draws with Sorcerer are impossible to gain and hold board presence. So it doesn't always work. The easiest solution is probably adjusting the draw algorithm to give you at least 1 creature with +5 or more attack. I've seen (albeit rarely) some pretty tough sorcerer draws. By the way, I think Earth 3 + Sorcerer 5 needs banned. Also, Sorcerer 7 strikes me as too strong. Modified by Fail on 2010-02-02 07:25:24 | Wavelength | 2010-02-08 05:18:56 |
"Actually the first change would make the most difference, and subsequent ones gradually" - Wiggin [quotes system got glitched so I had to edit it out. Sorry Wiggin!] Huh? Changing just one card (say, Sorcerer 6) wouldn't fix the "problem", because half the time you still wouldn't have any Sorcerer Creatures. The whole "problem" is that Board Control runs very hot and cold with this class (which I think in this case is GREAT design). If you make an entire pair of Sorcerer creatures (such as 5 and 6) that amplify spells, that could work. Still, I like it much better the way it is now! To answer Wavelength's question...
...because some draws with Sorcerer are impossible to gain and hold board presence. So it doesn't always work. The easiest solution is probably adjusting the draw algorithm to give you at least 1 creature with +5 or more attack. I've seen (albeit rarely) some pretty tough sorcerer draws.
I agree that the lack of creatures hurts a lot, but Sorcerer has many ways around this. In particular: * Sacrifice lets you get to your big creatures very quickly, in case most of your low-cost cards are chump blockers and spells. It does take some finesse to play correctly. * Ritual of Glory can save you about three turns worth of Board presence, and/or knock one or more turns off of the opponent's Board presence, if you set up the timing correctly, particularly if you were able to launch an elemental or two. * Disintegrate usually knocks three to four enemy creatures off of the board, which is massive. It might be the single best Board Presence spell in the game. Sorcerer really isn't a class for beginners, IMO, but when played correctly it is probably the best class in the game right now. By the way, I think Earth 3 + Sorcerer 5 needs banned. Also, Sorcerer 7 strikes me as too strong. Earth 3 + Sorcerer 5 only lasts one turn, and I think it's a cute combo. Earth 3 needs a break, anyway. I personally don't think it should be banned. Sonic Boom is a great card right now, especially when compared to Cannonade (of similar cost). It's a LITTLE too powerful (and absolutely absurd with Dragon) and 12 damage would probably balance it. === I still don't think Steal Essence needs to be changed at all. I really like the card; I play it almost every game when I get it. It's situational but very useful, and it combines well with Faerie Apprentice and Dragon (and helps pumps the next spell which will probably be boosted by either one of these cards as well).
Modified by Wavelength on 2010-02-08 05:20:44 | garcia1000 | 2010-02-08 08:13:03 |
How does Sorcerer deal with Goblin Shaman?
It seems like Goblin Shaman would mean that Sorcerer experiences difficulties. | wiggin | 2010-02-08 08:40:53 |
"Actually the first change would make the most difference, and subsequent ones gradually" - Wiggin [quotes system got glitched so I had to edit it out. Sorry Wiggin!]
Huh? Changing just one card (say, Sorcerer 6) wouldn't fix the "problem", because half the time you still wouldn't have any Sorcerer Creatures. You're a looking at things too black and white, like there is one "problem" and it can be either solved or not solved. Actually it's a gliding scale of problematic hands, where there is a certain risk of drawing hands devoid of useful creatures, which will decrease for every creature you add to the possible draws. And the largest decrease will be for the first creature added.
| fail22 | 2010-02-08 10:34:58 |
I actually like sorceror. But look at the hand I posted at the top and tell me how you would go about winning with that. The game felt out of my control.
Maybe its because I like Sorcery 4 more than Sorcery 3, but I really think Sorcery 3 needs 1 more damage. Its not useless, but its a cool idea that needs more punch. Or maybe I'm just trying to find a use for it in every 2 games. Playing it every game seems too much. Are you sure those are your best plays?
| fail22 | 2010-02-08 10:36:54 |
How does Sorcerer deal with Goblin Shaman?
It seems like Goblin Shaman would mean that Sorcerer experiences difficulties. I don't know, 6-8 clear them off the board so at best you can stall them for a cost of 1 special mana + your play. Although you get a creature on the board doing so.
| undefeated | 2010-02-08 15:46:32 |
...
I don't know, 6-8 clear them off the board so at best you can stall them for a cost of 1 special mana + your play. Although you get a creature on the board doing so.
Exactly, its free creatures and damage. It is amazing. I would drop 2 or 3 shamans nearly every game vs. sorcery
| Wavelength | 2010-02-08 16:27:29 |
I'd say on average Steal Essence is my best play once per game. It often happens when I target something like an unblocked 3HP Merfolk Elder; something I'd normal lay down a Wall of Fire to try and kill. Sometimes it's a much better move, like opening up an opposed Titan.
Goblin Shaman works really well vs. Sorcerer in the 4-5 times I've done it. Really, really well. The two times I've played against it the best strategy seemed to be using my non-Special mass destruction to wipe them out, then going to town with Sorcerer spells. But I can see scenarios where that might be too little too late.
Wiggin - I agree that any method of reducing the incidence of "no decent creature" draws would be of some use but unless you could guarantee exactly one Sorcery creature, I think it would ruin the concept of the Sorcery deck. It's my opinion moreso than a hard fact and that's why I'm viewing it in black-and-white.
| Fail22 | 2010-02-09 01:14:25 |
Sadly, I can't play beta with other classes, so I'll have to agree. What do you suggest be done?
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