| Zannoland | 2010-01-28 20:36:22 |
I started this list before 1.1, but it got really unwieldly and many of the issues were highly debatable. I've removed a couple others that I've since changed my mind about and narrowed it down to a very narrow range of cards that I believe have been overlooked by the recent balance tweaks. This post is not intended to address hot button issues like Dragon, etc, but only cards that are really weak or situational automatic wins. Fire 4/Fire Drake: This card is too expensive for what you get out of it compared to the rest of the Fire deck, and especially compared to Water 4, and even Air 4 is still stronger despite getting hit with one of the heaviest nerfs a card has seen. In all the games I've played there has literally been one, and exactly one game I have played where Fire Drake secured the win in a situation that Griffin couldn't do it. It has an interesting ability, but the hit it takes on its stats to compensate for it is way too drastic. The only player I know who favors this card heavily is Finalslayer, however what I don't think he understood is that I beat him when he committed to fire drake way more often than not. Suggestion: 5 attack would equalize it with Griffin for a lot of reasons. _________________________ ________________________ Fire 9/Inferno: This card is the weakest of the three guaranteed sweeps. Lots of people complain about Dragon and how it runs so hot/cold but after thinking about it for a long time I've realized that it's not actually Dragon that's the culprit, it's a result of Chain Lightning not only being the best of the three sweeps but also having the best synergy with Dragon. This tips Inferno over the line to a card which is already weak in a vacuum to being a card that I try to shoehorn my opponents into a situation where they're being forced to play it. Bottom line is this. When you draw inferno, it's more important to look at what you're not getting, be it that you can't play it if you play inferno, or you simply can't draw it: Fire 10, a scaling creature card that has a habit of spiraling out of control more than any other elemental. Fire 11, a scaling damage card which damages your own creatures but also damages the opponent which is more useful. It is very rare that inferno can put up more raw damage to the opponent than armageddon game. Fire 12, a high power creature that does not scale on its own, but interacts with scaling cards and is also carefully mathematically designed so that it almost always pushes a spell to inflicting instant death on the next tier up of creatures, which is almost as good as scaling itself. So, I think the solution to fixing inferno, while drastic, should be pretty obvious. Suggestion: 9+X against target and 10 the rest of opponent's creatures. It's a drastic change but Inferno really needs that much extra power to be considered playing over the rest of the high end of the fire deck. This card is so middle of the road that it makes it far more medicore than it is on paper, as it lacks the speed of orc and minotaur but lacks the punch to carry you through a long game. _________________________ ________________________ Chaos 2 / Insanian Berserker: This card is BROKEN. If you can't understand why then you need to play against someone who berserker rushes you is not a complete idiot. Berserker rush is a cheese strat in its purest form, it takes immense skill to beat, but very little skill to execute. And to top it all off, it's a luck based strategy on multiple levels, not only in the amount of damage they do outright, but also that Berserker rush has a lot of hard counters which you may or may not luck out on drawing. Suggestion: Instead of viewing the Berserker ability as a dice view it as a deck of 6 cards. Then the card puts up exactly 21 damage every 6 activations. Once the random factor is made more predictable, then it will be much easier to tell whether or not Berserker is too strong or too weak. It would be nice to apply this to Chaos 1 as well, but Chaos 1 isn't broken, just annoying. _________________________ ________________________ Death 7 / Drain Souls: This card needs to kill Phoenix, not because Drain Souls+Phoenix is too powerful anymore, but because playing Phoenix against Drain Souls against makes Drain Souls completely unplayable. This card really ruins Necro mirrors more than any other card ruins any other mirror matchup, especially considering Death 8 already gives you plenty of reasons to keep your fire high anyway. Suggestion: Drain Souls kills Phoenix, or some magical draw mechanic so that Phoenix can never be drawn in a Necromancer mirror. _________________________ ________________________ Holy 5 / Divine Intervention: I don't care if this card has lower Win % than Wrath of God, this card creates the Spectromancer equivalent of a Royal Flush more than any other card in the game. I have played countless games in which I'm playing as Illusion which specializes in *dealing direct damage to the opponent* and I am up in Board control 3+ slots the entire game and I still lose because there's no possible way I can get them into the killzone because they spend the first 20 turns transferring all their mana into healing and then unload with a 10 attack elemental out of nowhere or a 20+ fire armageddon or something stupid like that. Against certain Holy 5 hands it is mathematically impossible to win - there is no possible way you can damage the opponent faster than he can heal. The changes to faerie sage alleviate the problem somewhat, however thatis only one card out of a set of many where this card has brokensynergy if you draw too many of them in one hand. If the devs reallybelieve that some form of healing is necessary to compensate for theloss of board control, I've gotten to the point where I'd seriouslyrather be stunned for a turn than let the opponent get 12 life off thiscard. Suggestion: Lower the life gain. Modified by Zannoland on 2010-01-28 20:38:55 | Wavelength | 2010-01-28 21:48:34 |
Fire Drake: I've been in at least ten games where Fire Drake was the killing blow and nothing else could win that turn, and in addition I've seen it take out an Elemental, Dragon, or other high-value creature just in time to turn the tide in a game. I agree it's too expensive, but 5 attack would make it one of the best creatures in the game, easily. I'd suggest making it 4/19, or reducing its cost to 3 and making it 4/13 (turning Priest of Fire into a 4/14 at Cost 4).
Inferno: I agree that it's way worse than anything above it in Fire, but it's also way better than anything below it in Fire. If you make Inferno scale as suggested, you really have to compare it to Disintegrate and I think your suggestion makes it a little too good. How about calling it 18-20 to the target, and 12 for all other enemy creatures?
Insanian Berserker: Make him 3/15 or 3/16, change the effect to 2-5 damage per turn, and call it a day.
Drain: I feel the card needs a complete rework, so I'll stay out of this one.
Divine Intervention: I agree with your analysis. I think lowering the life gain to 8-10 would be enough. Alternatively, I'd suggest reworking it to "Cost 5. Gain 1 of each power [including Holy] and 10 life. Then, play another card [before your attack phase]."
| Kaylee | 2010-01-29 03:05:07 |
I wouldn't mind if fire 4 was buffed in some small way. He's definitely usable now, but he does seem a little weak. Same thing with Bargul.
I think fire 9 is fine as is, though. I actually like it more than the other sweeps.
I also don't understand the complaints about Holy 5, and I've been hearing them since the very beginning. It's a strong card, sure, but I've never been in that "I can't possibly kill them" position that I keep hearing about. Perhaps you're going in for the kill too early? I don't doubt that these "royal flush" situations do arise on occasion, but since I've never seen one myself I do find it hard to believe that they're so common that the card must be changed. I'm usually relieved when my opponent uses Holy-5, because then I know I don't have to worry about Holy 6.
Perhaps a replay or a description of 'hands' where you think this royal flush occurs would be helpful. "Mathematically impossible to win" is a strong claimed and needs backed up.
Here is my list of cards I would have changed (excluding overlap):
Dragon
Witch
Earth 2
I don't see many people talking about earth 2. Would you still play it at +7?
| wiggin | 2010-01-29 08:34:36 |
Fire Drake is a little weak, but it's fine really. I definitely don't think that increasing the attack is the way to go. If you must change it, then a 1 max 2 increase in HP.
Inferno is a great card. Maybe practice using it instead of complaining about it.
Insanian Berserker. You are mistaken here. It does take a lot of skill to execute. If you just rush them out, you might easily run into some good mass destruction, and then you are fatally behind in special mana. Especially you must be able to discern when is the right time to play them. Also, complaints about randomness is a typical issue in any game that includes it. But in the end of the day, randomness makes games more dynamic. There is a reason we are not playing chess, where the best player would win every time. It's already a risky card, making it have 3 attack would make it even more so. I could maybe get behind setting its health back to 16, and making the extra damage 1-5. Would make it a little less everything-or-nothing.
Drain Soul / Phoenix. Whatever. Drain Soul sucks, from a gameplay perspective.
Divine Intervention. I actually agree that it would be neat to reduce the life gain a little.
@Kaylee I see what you're saying here, and mostly agree with you. I'm just personally against when games can be won while ignoring board control, just sitting back and dragging the game out.
Witch and Earth 2 are imo two of the strongest cards in the game. They don't need to be nerfed imo, but i wouldn't complain about it if they were, slightly. It's difficult to nerf the witch in a sensible way though, since nerfing its stats will make it run even more hot and cold.
i agree with wiggin on fire drake, just giving it a couple of hps is probably the way to go. Â setting the life gain of divine intervention at 10 or 11 would be nice too. Â i don't think berserkers are broken. the problem that you have to face when racing with them against a good player is that you commit to a very aggresive strategy from early on, and that fact is obvious to your opponent from the beginning, so he/she can plan accordingly (usually from the very first turn of the game) in order to set up and use defensive cards to keep a safe life total and/or a good board position. if he/she manages that, then you are probably at a specialty power disadvantage. still, i agree that sometimes it just seems like the outcome of the game depends on whether the defending player has a specific card in his pool or not (ice guard or acidic rain come to mind). but the truth is that the efficiency of every strategy depends, at some extend, on the opponent's card pool and the answers available at his/her disposal. Â nature ritual is perhaps a little bit over the top. sometimes it dominates games all by its own. maybe it could be set to heal a couple of hps less to the creature or to the player? not 100% sure on this though. Â witch seems like it could use some nerfing as well indeed. how about it dealing a small amount of damage to you when summoned? Modified by filip on 2010-01-29 15:43:58 | Wavelength | 2010-01-29 15:58:35 |
Well, with the nerfing of Faerie Sage, Nature Ritual becomes (by far) the best overall healing card in the game. I've advocated something similar before, but I still feel the best solution would be to make Forest Spirte 1/16 at Cost 2, and make Nature Ritual Cost 3, with the following effect: "Heals 10 life to target creature. Heals 7 life to owner." Modified by Wavelength on 2010-01-29 16:04:30 | Zannoland | 2010-01-30 01:09:04 |
Drain Soul / Phoenix. Whatever. Drain Soul sucks, from a gameplay perspective.
Necro mirror is probably the second most fun mirror behind Control mirror. Give it a shot sometime.
I think we should focus on changes that don't require changing the cost of cards.
I also tend to agree with Wiggen, although I think the hot or cold of witch is fine, you've got 3 other control cards, you don't the card to be useful all the time. That is partially my problem with it, it is too often a safe card.
| Wavelength | 2010-01-30 06:00:36 |
I think we should focus on changes that don't require changing the cost of cards. That's a completely arbitrary opinion. Changing the cost of a card as part of its rework is a fine way to go about balancing. This is successfully done in lots of online games and was actually done in the beta for Spectromancer's original release (swapping the costs of Tornado and Air Elemental). Modified by Wavelength on 2010-01-30 06:28:41 | Fail22 | 2010-01-30 10:02:40 |
The more drastic a change, the harder it is to see unintended consequences without testing. I do not see the desire nor capacity for the developers to make major changes. It seems more prudent to suggest those small changes that improve balance. +7 health is not as small a change as it seems and gives plenty more options for pressuring while they are healing with earth 2.
I actually like earth 3. Its a pretty neat card.
| Zannoland | 2010-01-31 01:07:43 |
The more drastic a change, the harder it is to see unintended consequences without testing. I do not see the desire nor capacity for the developers to make major changes. It seems more prudent to suggest those small changes that improve balance. +7 health is not as small a change as it seems and gives plenty more options for pressuring while they are healing with earth 2.
I actually like earth 3. Its a pretty neat card. I generally agree, which is why I tried to narrow the list down as much as possible. The only card I think really needs drastic reworking is inferno and berserker, the rest of the cards just need minor tweaking to be useful/not too useful... Wavelength, when you look at the cost of a card you also need to consider that any card also costs a turn. Nature Ritual is strong, but stalling with Nature Ritual often leads to many wasted turns that could have been used to kill the opponent instead.
Modified by Zannoland on 2010-01-31 01:09:34 | Kaylee | 2010-01-31 04:48:41 |
I think Death 3 is the card most in need of a boost. Give it 5 attack power, perhaps?
Modified by Kaylee on 2010-01-31 04:49:18 | HeadphonesGirl | 2010-01-31 21:26:27 |
Boosting death 3 is probably the only suggestion in this thread that I would be really solidly behind except the vaguely alluded to idea of completely changing death 7.
| Wavelength | 2010-02-01 07:10:23 |
There are too many places where Nature Ritual is just too strong or too spammable. All Elementals, Dragons (while you wait for a spell), Astral Guard, Mind Master, Phantom Warrior, Giant Turtle, Lightning Cloud... or ANYTHING while you wait for global destruction spells. Yes, it costs you a turn, but the 8HP to you makes up for the board advantage you're losing (up to a point), and then you actually come out way ahead if you have any upcoming global destruction. I don't know the numbers but I'd hazard the guess that it's got the highest win percentage of any Earth card (players 10+).
I'm completely in favor of buffing Banshee since it is undeniably one of the worst cards in the game. 5 attack would make it playable but I think you'd have to go as far as 5/22 to even make it an average card. You could even go 6/19 and it wouldn't be anything special.
Also, Ancient Horror needs a buff. It was a marginal card before, at best. Now, since all three classes (especially Sorcerer) have good ways to thwart it, it is very sad and would like a buff (I'd love to see 4/26 and prevents creatures equal or lower to your Control power from attacking).
| soldat12 | 2010-02-01 10:04:17 |
agreed with control4
4/26 and prevents creatures equal or lower to your Control power from attacking
also i dont think Eart2 is OP, but i were less using elementals lately.
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