fuzzer | 2015-09-12 03:13:25 |
Hi all, thank you for reading this! I really like this class I've come up with (with a lot of help from amorphism ). your thoughts of this class are more than welcomed!
Keeper of Limbo's main asset is its passive ability - which says: If YOU (Keeper of Limbo himself) die from combat damage (a creature's attack but not a spell or ability), instead of immediately dying, your death is postponed until the end of your turn, allowing you a last chance to win the game before your game-lose happens! (this is considered as being in 'Limbo-state'). And not only that, but also: If a creature you control dies from combat damage (a creature's attack but not a spell or ability), its death is also postponed until the end of your turn, allowing it to attack one more time during your turn, and allowing a lot of synergies this class offers! (this is considered as being in 'Limbo-state' and can be marked on creatures by semi-transparency + hp marked as 0). {note: a creature in 'Limbo-state' can't recover out of it even if it is healed - except if targeted by Limbo7} ======================== Name: KEEPER OF LIMBOName of power: LIMBOPassive ability:Whenever enemy creature attacks and kills KEEPER OF LIMBO or his creatures, their death is postponed until the end of KEEPER OF LIMBO's turn, they are considered to be in 'Limbo-state'. Creatures in 'Limbo-state' attack and block as usual.
the cards: 1. Heaven's KeeperLimbo 1, creature 3/7 each time another owner's creature enters 'Limbo-state' Heaven's Keeper heals 2 life to its owner and each of its owner's creatures. 2. Hell's KeeperLimbo 2, creature 3/10 each time another owner's creature enters 'Limbo-state' Hell's Keeper deals 2 damage to the opponent and each of the opponent's creatures. 3. Limbo WraithLimbo 3, creature *+1/14 Limbo Wraith's attack is equal to the number of owner's creatures that are in 'Limbo-state' plus 1. Limbo Wraith's attack damages the opponent and each of the opponent's creatures. 4. Tower of SinsLimbo 4, creature 0/21 each time an owner's creature enters 'Limbo-state' the opponent's mana of that creature's house is reduced by 1 and the owner's mana of that creature's house is increased by 1. 5. Nether GraspLimbo 5, spell destroys each of its caster's creatures and they enter 'Limbo-state'. then deals 3 damage to each of the opponent's creatures for each of the caster's creatures that is in 'Limbo-state'. 6. Soul AdjudicatorLimbo 6, creature 3/21 each time an owner's creature enters 'Limbo-state', a Heaven's Keeper or Hell's Keeper (whichever is in your hand) that gains "can't enter 'Limbo-state'" restriction is summoned in a random empty slot adjacent to that creature. 7. RedemptionLimbo 7, spell target caster's creature that is in 'Limbo-state' is re-summoned with full health. 8. Limbo BaronLimbo 8, creature 6/36 when a spell or ability damages and kills KEEPER OF LIMBO or Limbo Baron they enter 'Limbo-state'. when Limbo Baron enters 'Limbo-state' its attack doubles. ============================= I don't know if this great passive ability can be balanced at all, but I tried to do it anyway. so I tried to make the cards somewhat weaker than usual but still keeping them interesting. *** [First sketch] Passive ability: Whenever enemy creature attacks and kills KEEPER OF LIMBO or his creatures, their death is postponed until the end of KEEPER OF LIMBO's turn, they are considered to be in 'Limbo-state'. Creatures in 'Limbo-state' attack and block as usual. 1. Heaven's Keeper Limbo 1, creature 3/10 each time an owner's creature enters 'Limbo-state' Heaven's Keeper heals 2 life to its owner and each of its owner's creatures. 2. Hell's Keeper Limbo 2, creature 3/11 each time an owner's creature enters 'Limbo-state' Hell's Keeper deals 2 damage to the opponent and each of the opponent's creatures. 3. Limbo Wraith Limbo 3, creature *+1/18 Limbo Wraith's attack is equal to the number of owner's creatures that are in 'Limbo-state' plus 1. Limbo Wraith's attack damages the opponent and each of the opponent's creatures. 4. Tower of Sins Limbo 4, creature 0/21 each time an owner's creature enters 'Limbo-state' the opponent's mana of that creature's house is reduced by 1 and the owner's mana of that creature's house is increased by 1. 5. Nether Grasp Limbo 5, spell destroys each of its caster's creatures and they enter 'Limbo-state'. then deals 3 damage to each of the opponent's creatures for each of the caster's creatures that is in 'Limbo-state'. 6. Soul Adjudicator Limbo 6, creature 3/28 each time an owner's creature enters 'Limbo-state' it's sacrificed and replaced with Heaven's Keeper or Hell's Keeper (whichever is in your hand) that gains "can't enter 'Limbo-state'" restriction. 7. Redemption Limbo 7, spell target caster's creature that is in 'Limbo-state' is re-summoned with full health. 8. Limbo Baron Limbo 8, creature 6/36 when a spell or ability damages and kills KEEPER OF LIMBO or Limbo Baron they enter 'Limbo-state'. when Limbo Baron enters 'Limbo-state' its attack doubles.Modified by fuzzer on 2015-09-21 05:31:26 Wavelength | 2015-09-19 19:18:59 |
Shortened your lines of ======= because they break the page for some users. Please don't include more than 30 characters in a row without a space in the future. The ability is interesting and - while it might make for class matchup imbalances - I like that it doesn't work against spells because it will make for every interesting Timing strategies. This class' main weakness will be getting slot-broken by spells, so cards like Inferno, Sonic Boom, and Acidic Rain will play well against it. This class would be fairly well-balanced as it is if the passive ability only applied to the player and her Special creatures (a couple of the high-end cards would need buffs); however, since it applies to ALL her creatures, it is a pretty huge ability and the cards - especially the low-end ones - need to be weaker as a result. 1) A fine idea but it's overpowered - compare to Lemure (with 6HP in its second form, Scrambled Lemure is really more like a Limbo Mastered Lemure ). Also, remember that these cards need to be weaker than standard Specials of the same cost - after all, the class comes with a fairly powerful passive ability that works on all friendly creatures. I think 3/7 and ability only activates on OTHER cards (including other Keepers) going into Limbo would be fair. 2) I've never been crazy about the 1 and 2 of a class being exact flips of each other, like Peackeeper/Berserker in Chaos. The balance on this is probably fair at 2/11 (3/11 is probably too good), but I think you can come up with something more creative. 3) Averaging maybe 2 or 3 attack, and able to do direct damage each turn, this is almost as good as Ornithopter - again, too powerful because of the class ability. Drop the life to 14. 4) What happens if it's a Special creature - does the mana gain/loss still happen in each player's respective Special house? This is definitely weaker than your other cards - you could make it a 2-attack creature, or give it a few extra life points if you want to keep it as a wall. 5) What happens if the creature is already in Limbo state? This card is so inferior to Acidic Rain or Stone Rain that I don't really understand the design behind it. I know it synergizes very well with the rest of the class (and 2 in particular), but the average-use scenario is so negative that I can't really see the card working well. 6) The effect is going to be a malus most of the time, unless your board is utter trash. Wouldn't you rather have your 8-attack Water Elemental, your Dragon, or your Limbo Baron survive for another turn in Limbo State, instead of getting a 3/10 creature with a small effect in its place? With that being said, I also cannot see this card working well. With a very low life total (like 17), you might be able to give an ADDITIONAL L1 or L2 in an adjacent slot to any creature that enters Limbo state. 7) I like it a lot. Very situational "free creature", kind of the reverse of Tornado, but a little weaker which is good because of the class' passive. I especially like that you can pull out a second round of Summon effects on cards like Titan. 8) The ability is a very smart and creative way to get around the Tornado restriction. I love it. However, the creature itself is kind of underwhelming for a Special 8. I want to make its stats much higher, but the powerful class passive makes that hard to do. Maybe 7/36 or 8/32 would be better? fuzzer | 2015-09-20 12:25:15 |
thanks for your feedback Wavelength! I know this passive ability is very strong. both because the player himself going into limbo can win you a lot of tight matches and ALL friendly creatures' potential of going into limbo gives you a big advantage. that is why I made going into limbo-state possible only after dying from COMBAT DAMAGE. of course it's still very powerful (and his cards must be reasonably weaker). I'll just state that when a friendly creature goes into limbo - you do get to keep it for an extra attack on your turn - but in that turn you can't summon another creature in it's place - and that means you can potentially be exposed to the opposite slot's creature's attack... this doesn't fully compensate for the big advantage you receive from this passive ability but it's something to be considered. also, I didn't check statistics, but I'm sure there are a lot of games in which only very few creatures die from combat damage and their majority dies from spells - I occasionally take a look on the 'banish creatures' statistics on the 'end game screen' - and see a one digit number on either side (and this doesn't even take into account the 'combat damage' restriction of this class' passive ability! still- 1) accepted your proposal fully. 2) if only for L6's sake (and for flavor reasons) - I'll choose to keep my keepers mirror abilities. I appreciate your suggestion, however, I really don't like making his attack be 2, so I mirrored L1 modification and made it a 3/9. I hope it's now better.
3) like I said before, I am not sure so much friendly creatures will "combat-damage-die" so that Limbo Wraith's attack will be even 2 on average. (although if it goes into limbo itself - his attack would be 2 for one turn ) but, since I made it a cost 3, which is relatively cheap, I had dropped its life like you suggested. 4) the answer is yes. special mana is special mana. I didn't think it was so weak but buffed its health a bit. 5) that is what I like so much about this card! it's meant for those situations when you have, for example, 2 alive creatures + 2 limbo-state creatures: then you simply sacrifice those 2 living creatures (possibly massively wounded) - and get to deal 4*3 damage to opponent's creatures - and possibly clearing the way for 4 unblocked creatures' attack! (+ synergies) - I really like this card. it reminds me of chess elegant moves of sacrificing an important piece for a better state of the field for you, or for a win. but maybe I'm not objective. 6) I see what you mean. I think your improvement is great but 3/17 seems low so I made it 3/21. other than that, I really like your suggestion. took it :) 7) I agree, it's situational. but when pulled-off it can be good. 8) what I like about the baron is that it makes you immortal for that turn that you are suppose to die in. granting you, for sure, another opportunity to win when you were suppose to die. do you think that boosting its attack to 7 is possible? I'm not sure... Wavelength | 2015-09-20 23:49:30 |
Sounds good, thanks for taking lots of my feedback.
2) Interestingly this is now killed by every sweep in the game. My instinct is that with the "other" restriction on the card, you can safely raise it to 3/10.
5) To illustrate, compare it to any other spell in the game that does 12 damage: Divine Justice, Wrath of God, Rage of God, Army of Rats, or Cursed Fog. All of these either contain a bonus, or contain a gentler malus than "your cards will die in a turn" plus are cheaper than this card. Sure, there are situations where this card will be worthwhile, but those will be few and far between, and even then you're spending a lot for the effect.
8) Given how gamebreaking most Special 8s' abilities are, yes, I think you can safely raise it to 7 attack. I agree that it's cool that it gives its owner the automatic turn of limbo, so you can't spike them with a Lightning Bolt to win the game.
fuzzer | 2015-09-21 05:29:22 |
Sounds good, thanks for taking lots of my feedback.
2) Interestingly this is now killed by every sweep in the game. My instinct is that with the "other" restriction on the card, you can safely raise it to 3/10.
5) To illustrate, compare it to any other spell in the game that does 12 damage: Divine Justice, Wrath of God, Rage of God, Army of Rats, or Cursed Fog. All of these either contain a bonus, or contain a gentler malus than "your cards will die in a turn" plus are cheaper than this card. Sure, there are situations where this card will be worthwhile, but those will be few and far between, and even then you're spending a lot for the effect.
8) Given how gamebreaking most Special 8s' abilities are, yes, I think you can safely raise it to 7 attack. I agree that it's cool that it gives its owner the automatic turn of limbo, so you can't spike them with a Lightning Bolt to win the game. 2) I guess the health boost from 9 to 10 is somewhat important. it'll be nice for it to survive plain sweeps. I'll do it. 5) like we both agreed, cards of this class must be significantly weaker. so I still think the card is o.k and can be used frequently. also, this card is very much on-theme and unique, so I, for now, like to keep it as it is. at first I thought of making it hit for 4 damage for each limbo-state creature - but that way with a full board it'll do 24 damage to all enemy creatures and I think its too much. with 3 like now, even with full board it'll deal only 18 + all your creatures will die the next turn. I think the card is fun and fairly balanced. maybe there will be times when it is unplayable and weak, but I believe other times this card will be beneficial for the player. 8) if the baron is in limbo-state in the beginning of your turn, or still alive with low health - Armageddon will regularly deal around 20 damage to the opponent, plus possible 14 damage from an unblocked baron with regular attack 7. I feel this is too high. I think even 6 for him is high! I'll wait for more opinions... (if there will be other ones ) thanks!
amorphism | 2015-09-22 00:23:50 |
Since I co-designed this class (the passive ability idea credits all go to Fuzzer!), I won't even imply that I'm objective about it But I do wish to answer some of the current feedback and explain what I can. First I want to say that an adapted player will soon realize he can/should spam creatures since they stick around longer and still attack, generate mana (F3/F10/W5 etc'), allow others to attack (W9), direct damage (A5) and so on. So my guess is that the average in-game creatures in most points of time is 3-4 for KoL. And that should be taken into account with every calculation hereinafter. 1 + 2) Thematically I think they fit well. It's funny, because my argument with fuzzer was that they're too weak. Their original effect was 3 heal/damage. I thought they should have a lower attack (esp. the healer) - 2 and 3 and a slightly bigger body - 11 and 13 so they'll be able to survive long enough to execute their effects. 3) 14 HP won't survive long enough to impact the game and maybe 18 is too much. Let's take the middle-road here - 16HP (just 1 point more to shield against acid rain). 4) It's akin to Damping Tower - it's not a wall, it's a structure (i.e Monument to Rage) so an attack doesn't fit. Its ability to move around mana has no analogue in Spectromancer so it's easy to miss how strong it is. Each time you got a dead creature (which still can attack/block) you got -1 / +1 effect = moving 2 mana. In the course of start to mid-game it reasonably can "see" 3 limbo creatures (including itself) = 6 mana. Also important to note that if you push for a certain house, low cost earth creatures for example (spamming Elven Healer) - you're bound to get some of their cost back while stealing the same amount from opponent house. So it's a great control card when used properly and I don't think it needs any boost. 5) I actually agree with WL. It won't be used often, only in the right circumstances when there's a possible board sweep for the opponent creatures and in-class synergies with 1/2/3 or 8. It might not be a bad idea to bump the damage to 4X. For KoL the average board is 4 creatures (my guess it's 2-3 for other classes) so for 16 damage it's an upgrade from the 12 damage in his examples. 6) From what I understand, creatures now aren't sacrificed by this card ability? The name doesn't fit if that's the case. But more importantly - WL suggested an ADDITIONAL L1/L2 to be summoned, so it's 2 creatures instead of 1 (did I understand correctly?) and I don't see where it's implemented. Seems too powerful to me. I think this card should be redesigned. 7 + 8) Nothing needs to be changed for them. Both are good for their costs. Like Fuzzer said about Limbo Baron - 7 is too high to get X2 *no matter what happens* (spell/ability/attack) while also protecting you from all type of game finishers.
Modified by amorphism on 2015-09-22 00:24:12 thiaguinhofoca | 2017-07-03 15:10:45 |
Bom dia estou querendo um código de ativação
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