fuzzer | 2015-05-22 10:52:39 |
Hello all,
I'd like to put a magnifying glass on a specific behavior and ask for opinions. I don't want to influence your perspective so I deliberately avoid describing my own opinion on this behavior with harsh words (although it's sort of obvious what I think just to fact that I'm bringing this up).
in more than a few duels (my owns or observed), I saw more than a few different winning players do the same: when they have the possibility to finish the game with a winning move (usually Armageddon) - they instead prolong the game by playing other moves and misleading their opponent to think he has a chance to win when in fact he doesn't.
I find this behavior to be rude and disrespectful of the opponent. what do you think?
Tendou | 2015-05-22 11:16:04 |
Yeah, i experienced that one too, but in very rare instances they may mean that the opponent simply missed a winning possibility, of course it is about 1- or two turns away from winning then it most certainly is disrespecting, i just really hope we can skip those opponents on the long run.
fuzzer | 2015-05-22 12:07:00 |
Just today, I dueled someone and he played well (at least better than me) - and on what I thought would be my last move - I considered what are my options and played the best move I could while knowing that if he has Armageddon he had won and if he has F10 than maybe I have a chance (I had Dragon). I was sure I had lost, and was surprised when he played another card and not Armageddon and thought "great, I still have a chance" and wasted my time thinking and considering and playing my best move - just to die the next turn to the same Armageddon that would have killed me the previous turn! I don't understand his motivation of doing so. what's the purpose? it's plain rudeness as I see it.
fuzzer | 2015-05-22 12:14:08 |
...and there is no chance on earth he somehow didn't realize that he could win. I wouldn't even consider that.
mamoulian | 2015-05-22 12:35:28 |
...and there is no chance on earth he somehow didn't realize that he could win. I wouldn't even consider that. Oh there is... Sometimes happens to me too. :P CyberneticPony | 2015-05-22 13:18:20 |
I just surrender when this happens, and blacklist them.
Sinist | 2015-05-22 13:33:22 |
Sometimes players just forget they have winning combination. If it doesnt happen regularly, I dont think you should blackmail them
Now if it is obvious that you are going to lose, yet you try to prolong game as much as possible, thats another matter... >_<
fuzzer | 2015-05-22 15:14:29 |
CP, I have a crystal clear blacklist and wouldn't want to start it now :) maybe you're right, mamoulian, maybe I'm too quick to dismiss that option. I just wonder if someone would have arguments defending this "playing with your prey" strategy.. if someone told me he occasionally do this himself and explain to me why I shouldn't be offended maybe it would eliminate the blood-boil I feel - wanting to crush the arrogant buster next game - and help me take it easy I say so because sometimes people see things very differently!: when I am 100% convinced I can't win - I will sometimes respectfully surrender the game - and some players told me they find it upsetting (they feel I deprived them from the glorious rewarding ending of their victorious game) - and in some other occasions I keep bravely fighting until the very end, or refuse to accept my inevitable lose and (because of inertia) prolong the fight somewhat unnecessarily - and Sinist (just for example) wrote here just before a couple of hours he find this to be disrespectful... so, can anybody open my eyes why I shouldn't be offended or is it unanimously considered offensive? fuzzer | 2015-05-22 15:47:01 |
Maybe I get offended because I look at Spectromancer as a cold-heart pretend-honorable duel of two mighty-force wizards with mutual respect.. maybe if I looked at the duel like a warm fight between two barbarian-magicians brothers who fight to establish their superiority using cheap shots and pretend-disrespect - I wouldn't be... how do you mind-vision the duel?
Modified by fuzzer on 2015-05-22 15:48:59 Ruby456 | 2015-05-22 16:01:36 |
Yes ... It is Ruby456 here Happening this Thing in the Morning to me - and 2 times i Losse Becouse the Armageddons wass Used to a LeveL 3 PLayer !! This PLayer use Armageddons for the Begin 2 times and After another times and wins . He wass LeveL 7 and down to 6 after 5 and Now
He is LeveL 3 ( it is Nott fear when U are Lucky and try to Use aLse cards Like ,BarguL Fire 8, and after start a Quick Armageddons ALso
when the E4 is in this Hand of PLayer U can't do a good Attack ( when u HoLd Air 6 )
Butt in the Game 4 i use it weLL - My opponent doesen't has the E4 and I wins with BIG cards and a air 6 against Armageddons 22 mana points !Just i do some Trainings not DueLs so wass nott IMPORTANT for Me and SincereLy i give up 3 games thinking about this PLayer is a Nice One.
and doesent confusse Me ReaLy with Hide the Armageddons 2 times ...So I PLay better in the Game 4 the Last one and i Give up in Game 3
I give to this PLayer to out 2 ELementaLs and i nott try to deffend with Giant TurtLe at aLL . Sure i wass Tired to . One soLutions is Air 6 24 mana points or 30 . Butt this PLay do LeveL 7 = 13 maybe 14 same TacticaL PLay .
CyberneticPony | 2015-05-22 16:02:32 |
Maybe I get offended because I look at Spectromancer as a cold-heart pretend-honorable duel of two mighty-force wizards with mutual respect.. maybe if I looked at the duel like a warm fight between two barbarian-magicians brothers who fight to establish their superiority using cheap shots and pretend-disrespect - I wouldn't be... how do you mind-vision the duel? I see it like a medieval duel; yes people toy with you, but it's their every right; if they derive satisfaction from schadenfreude, just surrender and deny it from them.
Ruby456 | 2015-05-22 16:04:50 |
How U Know i am Here ? You FoLLow every Move Of Me ? ha ha ha haa
Sinist | 2015-05-22 16:27:18 |
maybe if I looked at the duel like a warm fight between two barbarian-magicians brothers who fight to establish their superiority using cheap shots
Thats exactly what you should expect from goblin or chaos master And dont even start on hell lords... Ruby, key to defeating earth 4 is board control
i admit i have done this occasionally. my motivation was twofold: from my point of view, it was to explore whether i could win the game in case i hadn't been dealt that winning card. if i could win without that card, then it means that i could have bluffed about having it (and take advantage of the fact that my opponent was trying to play around it) then win through another series of plays, which could come in handy as on option for future duels. from my opponent's point of view, this outcome would let them see that there are other possible (losing) variations to consider, so perhaps sometimes it's better to assume that their opponent doesn't have that winning card and at least try to win if that is the case (instead of trying to defend against it and end up opening themselves to a completely different path to defeat). but maybe i should not do this again if people are offended and consider it rude...
CyberneticPony | 2015-05-22 17:16:23 |
but maybe i should not do this again if people are offended and consider it rude... If we did that, then Social Justice Warriors would have destroyed free speech on the internet. Offense is taken not given.
GrimJ0ker | 2015-05-22 18:00:58 |
I usually do it versus rude players, in my opinion it's really funny to be rude against bad people. Eye for eye, tooth for tooth. I really hate different kind of players, especially players who speak only when they win, alternative accounts who join just to duel me. Modified by GrimJ0ker on 2015-05-22 18:09:25
I even sometimes forget I had Fire 11. There are 23 possible combinations running like horses in mind at that time(OK, its a joke, not 23), that even I forget I have a card that can make me win instantly. And I just go for any other card, Its natural. And then opponent wins. And I laugh after that defeat that I even didn't seen that card. I lost around 100+ duels due to not noticing the right card at right time. I don't think its rudeness or disrespect at all. fuzzer | 2015-05-23 06:39:54 |
...if i could win without that card, then it means that i could have bluffed about having it (and take advantage of the fact that my opponent was trying to play around it) then win through another series of plays... Thank you, filip, for this detailed perspective! I now can see a logical explanation for this behavior. I very rarely rely on a bluff because I think a suitable situation is not so common. but I can appreciate your point. from my opponent's point of view, this outcome would let them see that there are other possible (losing) variations to consider, so perhaps sometimes it's better to assume that their opponent doesn't have that winning card and at least try to win if that is the case (instead of trying to defend against it and end up opening themselves to a completely different path to defeat). but maybe i should not do this again if people are offended and consider it rude... I like the fact you try to pass your insight to the opponent by doing so. this is the opposite of disrespectful :) and I couldn't agree more about your insight itself! I hope your opponents won't be offended and also can say I permit you to "toy" with me as you plead since I know you are respectful from this forum and also from in-game chats! also like CyberneticPony said - offense is taken not given. I believe I shouldn't be too sensitive and afraid of not be taken seriously. maybe there are disrespectful players but I should neither fall to assumptions nor be so easily offended! GrimJ0ker - I hope I will never mistakenly get on your bad side :) Thats exactly what you should expect from goblin or chaos master And dont even start on hell lords...
that's funny and also interesting! do you adopt different persona for each specialty?
Modified by fuzzer on 2015-05-23 06:44:55 fuzzer | 2015-05-23 06:42:35 |
Modified by fuzzer on 2015-05-23 06:43:03 GrimestReaper | 2015-05-24 14:49:18 |
I like to toy with my prey, but it is not out of disrespect.
Consider this Fuzzer: every action in your life is an extension of life. Whether it's taking another breath or playing another card in a stupid game. We all know the end is coming and it's gonna suck, whether it's gasping for air, while pleading for a God that doesn't exist to spare your life (I swear god if you let me live I will go easy on the porn) or... Boom! Armageddon. Point is: nobody should be in a rush to die. Btw: Fuzzer... Your welcome for letting you live a little longer
CyberneticPony | 2015-05-24 18:35:47 |
I like to toy with my prey, but it is not out of disrespect.
Consider this Fuzzer: every action in your life is an extension of life. Whether it's taking another breath or playing another card in a stupid game. We all know the end is coming and it's gonna suck, whether it's gasping for air, while pleading for a God that doesn't exist to spare your life (I swear god if you let me live I will go easy on the porn) or... Boom! Armageddon. Point is: nobody should be in a rush to die. Btw: Fuzzer... Your welcome for letting you live a little longer
Being in a rush to die is fine since living often amounts to nothing anyway (naturalistically).
Modified by CyberneticPony on 2015-05-24 18:36:00
Being in a rush to die is fine since living often amounts to nothing anyway (naturalistically).
epicurus would disagree!
but he died 2300 years ago so he doesn't mind
Modified by filip on 2015-05-24 19:41:09 CyberneticPony | 2015-05-24 22:57:25 |
I disagree with Epicurus in many ways; for one, his "ideal route to happiness" is quite awful, it'd make me hate living.
Wavelength | 2015-05-25 02:04:32 |
There are three times when I'll do this:
1) I simply missed the winning move because I was fixated on some other route to victory. This actually happens in over 10% of my wins, where I realize later I missed a winner. I'm not a careful enough player most of the time.
2) I missed the winning move, and then realized it a turn later, but would rather pretend I don't have it so the opponent doesn't feel like I was taunting them. So I'll let it drag out an extra turn and finish them off some other way.
3) I'm deliberately making their defeat as slow and painful as possible. I only do this when my opponent has acted rudely to me in their words or their play.
Okay, one other time I've done this is to add extra time if I'm having a friendly chat with someone and want to say a few more things before the game ends. This obviously wouldn't ever be interpreted as disrespectful by my opponent, but might be viewed as such from the outside since observers can't see chat.
Sylvia | 2015-05-25 03:19:39 |
Being in a rush to die is fine since living often amounts to nothing anyway (naturalistically).
Strange that you got minus for your first intelligent post lol (+2 from me now)...
Superficial that's true, what you say...for example a materialist has absolutely no reason to live (a paradox in itself...), but unconsciously we all know, that we gain experience (level) in each life, no matter if good or evil, no matter if happy or depressed, no matter whatever...
So seen, you are really a very rich person, since I'm pretty sure now that you take antidepressant pills...but as you can see, it's a big deception, all drugs and even more the modern synthetical are just a big deception!
You can't get around yourself so easily lol...you must learn to love yourself Amelia!...and not always see everyone as an enemy (not always disagree)...
(Epicurus was a materialistic idiot imo, but that's another story...in this point he was right without even knowing it...) Modified by Sylvia on 2015-05-25 03:28:28 fuzzer | 2015-05-25 04:51:21 |
1) I simply missed the winning move because I was fixated on some other route to victory. This actually happens in over 10% of my wins, where I realize later I missed a winner. I'm not a careful enough player most of the time.
well, from all of these posts, I understand even top players can miss a winning move from time to time. I suppose it happens to me too every so often... Okay, one other time I've done this is to add extra time if I'm having a friendly chat with someone and want to say a few more things before the game ends. This obviously wouldn't ever be interpreted as disrespectful by my opponent, but might be viewed as such from the outside since observers can't see chat. and I didn't consider a chat was taking place when observing this
"toying"... I usually ain't so chatty :) I guess that's a good
explanation when observing that.. thanx Wavelength! fuzzer | 2015-05-25 05:15:16 |
I usually do it versus rude players, in my opinion it's really funny to be rude against bad people. Eye for eye, tooth for tooth. I really hate different kind of players, especially players who speak only when they win, alternative accounts who join just to duel me. 3) I'm deliberately making their defeat as slow and painful as possible. I only do this when my opponent has acted rudely to me in their words or their play. generally speaking, I don't like it. I suppose if someone really was an ass - he had it coming, but how many ass-holes do you play against? like I wrote before - I'm usually not that chatty while playing - but I can't imagine so many asses for this to become a "thing"... Modified by fuzzer on 2015-05-25 05:32:25
CyberneticPony | 2015-05-25 06:31:01 |
... Strange that you got minus for your first intelligent post lol (+2 from me now)... Superficial that's true, what you say...for example a materialist has absolutely no reason to live (a paradox in itself...), but unconsciously we all know, that we gain experience (level) in each life, no matter if good or evil, no matter if happy or depressed, no matter whatever... So seen, you are really a very rich person, since I'm pretty sure now that you take antidepressant pills...but as you can see, it's a big deception, all drugs and even more the modern synthetical are just a big deception! You can't get around yourself so easily lol...you must learn to love yourself Amelia!...and not always see everyone as an enemy (not always disagree)... (Epicurus was a materialistic idiot imo, but that's another story...in this point he was right without even knowing it...)
I am pretty upset you'd accuse me of taking drugs, saying said drugs are deceptions when they help people with actual problems, claiming I don't love myself, claiming I see everyone as an enemy, etc. You are talking out of thin air; it's just straight up lying.
And no, we don't "unconciously know we gain experience (level) in each life"... we only have one life, we are concious of the fact we gain experience... where are you generating all this nonsense from? Tendou | 2015-05-25 09:29:55 |
... I am pretty upset you'd accuse me of taking drugs, saying said drugs are deceptions when they help people with actual problems, claiming I don't love myself, claiming I see everyone as an enemy, etc. You are talking out of thin air; it's just straight up lying.
And no, we don't "unconciously know we gain experience (level) in each life"... we only have one life, we are concious of the fact we gain experience... where are you generating all this nonsense from?
It definiately seems that as all people whom can't find a meaning in a world bound by natural laws will try to find a mind created fiction world and its visual parts appaeling and if they start clinging to something to like that through satisfaction, confirmation and joy then they may find observed reality meaningless. BTW as supernatural claims came up again let me express how i view the perspective of someone who does explain such phenomena with persuasion. 1. I am pretty sure meaning and ultimate end goal is one of the many concepts we humans are clinging to alongside many other ones like free will, existence of a soul, life after death,complexity in our surroundings and civilization itself (many times without any rational reasons) in order to successfully separate ourselves from the animal world and nature in general as transcendent beings taking a high ground as a justified leading predator. The more complexity involved in our lives, the more advanced we think we are and in that sense it adds up perfectly to a mindset where filling up your head with stories myths or anything relatively complex and conforting may play an important part in your mental life and continuation of existence. So what i am saying here is when Stephanie is accusing you of the things mentioned above, she is projecting her own ideas about what she'd do if she thought the same way and it is always sad hearing if someone is lost without fairy tales but i can feel empathy towards that type of attitude and i think many others reading this can also. 2. I am sincerely interested in the ideas Miss Fischer is oultaying for us mortals, but the way the argumentations go in these topics themselves are not showing any form of strong confidence in the things that she is explaining. I mean there was appeal to emotion, personal experience(probably confirmation bias involved), shifting the burden of proof and degrading the alternative positions. These are by definiton logical fallacies which are used as tools when people are desperately trying to defend their postion regardless of the cost and harm and these are points which no rational human should accept by themselves ever. So either the case above in number 1 holds up to be the true one or there is an intentional and serious act towards everyone reading the forums, but in that instance i think we are reading metaphors and symbolic manifestations of what most likely will turn out to be the intention at the first place to make the forum content more complex and interesting;). Modified by Tendou on 2015-05-25 09:33:47 GrimJ0ker | 2015-05-25 10:38:48 |
... ... generally speaking, I don't like it. I suppose if someone really was an ass - he had it coming, but how many ass-holes do you play against? like I wrote before - I'm usually not that chatty while playing - but I can't imagine so many asses for this to become a "thing"...
"You lost 3000 games, terrible..." "You are a cheater" "Play spirit vs spirit coward!" "F**k you lucky a*****e" ... Alts account, offensive observers, arrogant players who write only after a winning game,stupid blacklister players... Personally my blacklist is empty so I just remember who they are. Krugopryad | 2015-05-25 11:36:47 |
... "You lost 3000 games, terrible..." "You are a cheater" "Play spirit vs spirit coward!" "F**k you lucky a*****e"
I agree that losing 3000 games is terrible. But winning 5500+ is solid. GrimJ0ker | 2015-05-25 13:14:45 |
...
I agree that losing 3000 games is terrible. But winning 5500+ is solid.
GrimJ0ker is an old account, i started to play with this when i was lvl.20+, i could do much better than this now. Anyway personally It happened only once.
51,72% winratio on level 10 in 1158 games, but he lost only 559 games
And Fuzzer said he doesn't like disrespect in these cases, ok. I really love it. Modified by GrimJ0ker on 2015-05-25 13:45:43
i've lost 7700+ but i have this account since level 1
Well, I've been criticized a couple of times for "delaying the game". I discussed with the players and I proved them (or tried to prove) that I wasn't aware of my chance to win (in one occasion I wasn't able to understand how i could win the round before at all). I always try to do my best to close the game as soon as possible (even because I played a lot of duels where I lost just because I wrongly felt the victory in my hand) but sometimes I really miss the move that can give me the victory. I am lazy, and I am not a smart ass duelist as I wish. That's all. Keeping the rival alive can be dangerous, in my opinion.
Noroj The Lazy One
Ps: hey, sorry for my english fuzzer | 2015-05-25 21:42:05 |
... "You lost 3000 games, terrible..." "You are a cheater" "Play spirit vs spirit coward!" "F**k you lucky a*****e" ... Alts account, offensive observers, arrogant players who write only after a winning game,stupid blacklister players... Personally my blacklist is empty so I just remember who they are.
thanks for sharing this. I just want to say that I drew a lot of inspiration from your games. actually I think I owe part of my level-climbing to viewing yours and Sealeta's games. thank you for revealing your cards to observers! sometimes I set and observed your games like a movie and some plays had actually made me laugh out of admiration! my blacklist also is empty. I do believe this game (like any other place) has it's disrespectful participants - I just think that punishing them by prolonging their losses is not something I would do. (but if it is funny for you and makes you happy go ahead and have your fun...) Modified by fuzzer on 2015-05-25 21:48:47 Jeronimo | 2015-05-26 06:15:40 |
I disagree with Epicurus in many ways; for one, his "ideal route to happiness" is quite awful, it'd make me hate living. Hate Epicureanism. Love Stoicism. GrimJ0ker | 2015-05-26 09:29:51 |
I just want to say that I drew a lot of inspiration from your games. actually I think I owe part of my level-climbing to viewing yours and Sealeta's games. thank you for revealing your cards to observers! sometimes I set and observed your games like a movie and some plays had actually made me laugh out of admiration!
Thanks fuzzer. ShavedShankRedemption | 2015-05-31 16:34:44 |
If I find myself playing a low level player (ex. under level 24) I will often give myself secret challenges to make it still somewhat interesting. Sometimes that might mean skipping so many turns, playing a certain card so many times, or making the game last so many turns.
True, toying with your oppenent might be considered rude, but only if they can perceive what is going on. Pretty sure such a player would be oblivious, as their brain operates on a lower wavelength. fuzzer | 2015-05-31 22:15:31 |
If I find myself playing a low level player (ex. under level 24) I will often give myself secret challenges to make it still somewhat interesting. Sometimes that might mean skipping so many turns, playing a certain card so many times, or making the game last so many turns.
True, toying with your oppenent might be considered rude, but only if they can perceive what is going on. Pretty sure such a player would be oblivious, as their brain operates on a lower wavelength. I don't know if you can determine someone's brain's wavelength to be lower nor I'm sure what that actually mean. but for me if you're taking handicap to keep you challenged that is fine (and even more so if your opponent is not aware of that). but if you ensured your winning and still take pleasure out of prolonging the game and your opponent is potentially aware of this - this is rude.
Wavelength | 2015-06-01 01:00:02 |
Pretty sure such a player would be oblivious, as their brain operates on a lower wavelength. I see what you did there.
JoeChen | 2015-06-01 01:44:25 |
Hate Epicureanism. Love Stoicism. Could not agree more!
But are you sure they meant to disregard the emotions lol?
Or does overcome mean to go through the emotions and observe yourself while performing this?
http://www.philolex.de/stoiepik.htm Modified by JoeChen on 2015-06-01 02:04:02 Strobe | 2015-06-03 19:51:17 |
The only thing that has ever bothered me are players who exit the game without surrendering or allowing me the killing blow. I know there are occasionally connectivity issues, I've had that happen to me. Usually, you can restart the game and jump back in the match before your turn has timed out. I'm talking about when a player realizes they are going to lose and they leave just to make you wait for the turn timeout. Also, there appears to be an exploit out there that allows players to leave the game without triggering the timeout count down. I'm currently in a game that has been the other players turn for about an hour now. I'm just curious to see how long (if ever) it takes for the system to finally realize my opponent has left. Again, this only happens the turn before I win.
As far as blacklisting goes, I've only ever felt the need to blacklist people who can't be civil in their chat messages. I play the game to have fun (not even to win, as my record will show) and so you can beat me over and over with dragon/lightning and I'll happily come back for more. Profanity laced tirades over a video game, however, are not tolerated by me. GrimJ0ker | 2015-06-03 20:25:12 |
Sometimes it happens to me, if after the timeout count down the system doesn't realize your opponent has left, you just click on your profile and you can see that you earned some exp, just restart the game because for other players you are already available to play a new duel in Revnia Valley.
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