vvjacobo | 2015-05-06 06:57:05 |
I'm having a horrible win rate against vampire with almost all classes unless I draw a realy cheap agresive hand.
¿Can someone 25+ give me some hints about dealing with v7 v8, to deal or not to deal with v3, try to kill creatures or try to kill hero?
thanks Modified by vvjacobo on 2015-05-06 06:57:35 Tendou | 2015-05-06 07:37:44 |
Hi, i think i can share some useful advice if you are interested. The single most important thing may be as you referred to as a good option is rushing your opponent using vampire and taking advantage of the board before he/she does. Most of the time i would prefer placing my high attack creatures as far away from each other as possible in order to avoid getting blocked by v7, also in terms of aggression i recommend placing creatures opposite to empty slots in that way you may most likely take control and let your opponent block so that your creatures always attack first. I think w2 may turn out to be a key card if your opponent has it because that is a very good card for vampire and your opponent can go aggressive threatening you with vamp5 finisher(which he/she has in this case with a 100% chance). You should also place a lot of unblocked creatures because if vamp8 comes out and most of your creatures were blocked then you are doomed. Btw most of the time the best option i think is to lock your opponent's special house mana by dealing damage without killing him. So for example if you have a6 and e6 too, and you see your opponent stacking vampire mana then you should cast one of those life damaging cards so that if a vampire card gets summoned, you can finish your opponent with the other life damaging card. If you can keep up pressuring your opponent the way i mentioned with a threat of one turn kills then you can easily control the game. Otherwise if you can see a rush coming from the other side, you may just rather block and win the board easily because his creatures are losing life every turn. For the matter of when to kill v3 or to kill at all i would say that it doesnt matter much if you kill it or not rather the board you have after it dies. If you have 3 creatures next to each other and he has vamp7 after his v3 died then you are screwd but as i said you can avoid that by placing further away from each other. Also you can speculate whether your opponent has v7 or v8 by looking at his creature placement. If he is desperately blocking then most likely he is trying to setup v8, and if he is placing tactically cards to one side of the board then v7 is of a higher probabaility.
CyberneticPony | 2015-05-06 11:11:46 |
I would say that you need to watch out for some other synergies than just V7/V8, even though those 2 are the prime killers. If you see Forest Sprites, it's a good likelihood V4s will come out because that synergy is one of the most efficient setups in the game. (V4 is boosted to a roughly to the level of a 10 to 12 cost creature every turn.) W2 is often used to pump Chastiser which is V6, which is what I think Tendou meant rather than V5. ((Mod note: NOPE! W2-V6 is banned, as Tendou mentions below.))
EDIT: I guess I was confused, I think I recall W2 pumping V4 (but they were on other sides of the board). Vampire doesn't really have a bad card, but as Tendou said, their higher cards are very predictable, and their life cost can often bite them if well-time DD comes out. I think the other thing to remember is that the life drain weakens all basic house creatures that are usually weak, so you will often win fights with them that you would not normally, which gives you a presence advantage often. You just need to make sure you kill them before a potential V8 could come out (ie, maybe don't block if he's filling his board and it's clear V7 won't be playable). (I am of the boat V7 is still on the OP side even with such a workable disadvantage.) Modified by CyberneticPony on 2015-05-07 14:54:46 Tendou | 2015-05-06 12:19:24 |
I would say that you need to watch out for some other synergies than just V7/V8, even though those 2 are the prime killers.
If you see Forest Sprites, it's a good likelihood V4s will come out because that synergy is one of the most efficient setups in the game. (V4 is boosted to a roughly to the level of a 10 to 12 cost creature every turn.)
W2 is often used to pump Chastiser which is V6, which is what I think Tendou meant rather than V5.
Vampire doesn't really have a bad card, but as Tendou said, their higher cards are very predictable, and their life cost can often bite them if well-time DD comes out.
I think the other thing to remember is that the life drain weakens all basic house creatures that are usually weak, so you will often win fights with them that you would not normally, which gives you a presence advantage often. You just need to make sure you kill them before a potential V8 could come out (ie, maybe don't block if he's filling his board and it's clear V7 won't be playable).
(I am of the boat V7 is still on the OP side even with such a workable disadvantage.) v6 and w2 are banned girl, and that is why you know that your opponent has v5 in case he has sea sprite. Modified by Tendou on 2015-05-06 12:20:25 Wavelength | 2015-05-06 12:32:08 |
I've been of many minds over time about how to play as or against Vampire, but my current belief is that the two best ways to beat most Vamp hands are to clear your opponent's creatures quickly (to prevent them from sapping life), and to apply life pressure where possible. Often, a losing Vamp game will have the Vamp Lord sitting on lots of Blood mana but unable to play any big creatures from the class because their opponent would be able to finish them after they pay the life cost, effectively removing the entire set of Vamp cards from the game and putting a huge tax on the other class' mana/creature pools. As an additional tip, keep in mind for the entire game what creatures your opponent is playing and why you think they're playing them - it will be very important if their Blood mana and life are getting high and you have to figure out whether they're intending to use V7 or V8, which are both gamebreakers in completely different ways. V5 is another very common power play, but if there's no life pressure, it can be treated in largely the same way as V7.
Modified by Wavelength on 2015-05-06 12:35:08 Sinist | 2015-05-06 18:42:40 |
Flank his special creatures, they are too tough (ice guard is ideal vs most of them) and destroy elemental creatures whenever possible. Especialy earth 11. Fire 11 is your best friend, hydra and her relatives too
HeadphonesGirl | 2015-05-06 20:52:30 |
I'm having a horrible win rate against vampire with almost all classes unless I draw a realy cheap agresive hand. ¿Can someone 25+ give me some hints about dealing with v7 v8, to deal or not to deal with v3, try to kill creatures or try to kill hero? thanks
Board control is much more important than life pressure until the end of the game. Try to get control of the board early by taking advantage of the life-drain effect to kill their creatures quickly. A lot of people make the mistake of thinking they should life rush against vampire to punish the life loss when they play their special cards. This usually doesn't work because any kind of healing with vamp, even screws like e1 and e11, stacks really well with the life drain effect and they end up stockpiling huge mana, coming back from the life rush and then overwhelming you with huge creatures after you've blown all your mana trying to go kamikaze. Board control rush. I love playing forest against vampire for this reason.
Sinist | 2015-05-06 21:45:55 |
Board control rush. I love playing forest against vampire for this reason.
and vampire 2 loves forest
HeadphonesGirl | 2015-05-06 22:05:41 |
I don't think vampire 2 is all that huge of a threat though. It takes several turns for its attack to get to a threatening level and it usually doesn't live that long.
Sinist | 2015-05-06 22:22:16 |
Well, in my experience they were a very big pain for rabbit & Co, especially with mster healer
Ruby456 | 2015-05-07 18:48:01 |
HeLLo!@! U can up here some - cooL Game ExampLe :: Vampire Lord vs Forest CLass against Archmage ?
Or against some PLayer nott matter who ?! Or a Video from a High PLayers than PLaying Forest vs Vampire Lord ...thx ...
Ruby456 | 2015-05-07 18:54:12 |
HeadphonesGirl CongratuLations LeveL 30 u deserve it before, Chaos Lord take it ... Just chaosLord maybe PLays more games than U !!
Ruby456 | 2015-05-07 18:58:32 |
He Have a New PLAYER OoMMM now LeveL 15 ... chaosLord
vvjacobo | 2015-05-08 09:58:36 |
Ok my typical downfall:
Vampire does either w3 or e1 spam + one board clearer like armg. or stone rain when he gets naked (with big surplus of life). After the clear v7 blocking what survived or spam creatures to force blocking and then v8.
Modified by vvjacobo on 2015-05-08 10:00:28 Sinist | 2015-05-08 14:53:10 |
Anyway, just go for golems, elementals and tornado Modified by Sinist on 2015-05-08 16:18:54 CyberneticPony | 2015-05-08 15:58:43 |
...
... Something is wrong here
He used the word "or".
HeadphonesGirl | 2015-05-08 22:36:37 |
Ok my typical downfall: Vampire does either w3 or e1 spam + one board clearer like armg. or stone rain when he gets naked (with big surplus of life). After the clear v7 blocking what survived or spam creatures to force blocking and then v8.
HeadphonesGirl | 2015-05-08 22:40:25 |
Try to play creatures who will survive arma and stone rain, keep a little healing in stock, and keep up board pressure after the arma if they still use it. Always ask yourself, given which of those cards he might be working towards, what can I play so that I'll still have creatures threatening him on the board? You want a vamp player to always havw to react to your game plan.
Ruby456 | 2015-05-10 22:12:46 |
Against Vampire Lord i Use Chaos Master or GobLins ... butt Necromancer is good to ... Chronomancer is to Lassy sometimes Weak vs Vampire Lord ... Some PLayers try to Destroy Chrono Engine without it's Hard to PLAY and combinating the Time Stop T4 .
Theodorus | 2015-05-11 14:40:38 |
There are another way to do: play 50+ game as vampire and you will see the weakness and pro of them in first person. Do experience with them is more important than just read some line of forum&play agaist.
Theodorus | 2015-05-11 14:43:50 |
There are another way to do: play 50+ game as vampire and you will see the weakness and pro of them in first person. Do experience with them is more important than just read some line of forum&play agaist. *if you already do that, means you didn t understood the class well.
Ruby456 | 2015-05-11 20:54:01 |
Theodorus ... why U think to DELETE GoLem Master ? More better is to give heem More Power Life and Attack No ?
I see this In Your ProfiLe ...
I know we need Practicing ALL cLasses IncLude Vampire Lord to Find what is the BEST PLAY with hem what cards is better and what nott So !!
Before i wass Training Houndred of Games ,just no time now ...after work i get Tired must Resting after a good Shower ...Eat and SLeep some 4 houres ...
In My Opinion GOLEM MASTER NEED A LITTLE MORE RESISTENCE to survive and nott die ...butt sorry maybe we need Weak CLasses to !
One weak CLass is nott so BAD !@!
Must we Learn to PLAY good with Weaknes cLasses to ...just GoLem Master need a LittLe Modifications for resist more than 4 rounds survive
don't U think ?
CyberneticPony | 2015-05-11 22:44:29 |
Theodorus ... why U think to DELETE GoLem Master ? More better is to give heem More Power Life and Attack No ? I see this In Your ProfiLe ... I know we need Practicing ALL cLasses IncLude Vampire Lord to Find what is the BEST PLAY with hem what cards is better and what nott So !! Before i wass Training Houndred of Games ,just no time now ...after work i get Tired must Resting after a good Shower ...Eat and SLeep some 4 houres ... In My Opinion GOLEM MASTER NEED A LITTLE MORE RESISTENCE to survive and nott die ...butt sorry maybe we need Weak CLasses to ! One weak CLass is nott so BAD !@! Must we Learn to PLAY good with Weaknes cLasses to ...just GoLem Master need a LittLe Modifications for resist more than 4 rounds survive don't U think ?
I'm not sure I understand Rubyese, but Golem is actually slightly on the strong side; golem contributes presence while being immune to spells, and that turns out to actually be a really game changing dynamic when coupled with its various mechanics; I think most people find Golem a very coin flippy class; get good draw/circumstances and the Golem contributes a lot of damage, while get a bad draw/circumstances and the Golem is a huge weakness.
Theodorus | 2015-05-12 20:07:11 |
Theodorus ... why U think to DELETE GoLem Master ? More better is to give heem More Power Life and Attack No ? I see this In Your ProfiLe ... I know we need Practicing ALL cLasses IncLude Vampire Lord to Find what is the BEST PLAY with hem what cards is better and what nott So !! Before i wass Training Houndred of Games ,just no time now ...after work i get Tired must Resting after a good Shower ...Eat and SLeep some 4 houres ... In My Opinion GOLEM MASTER NEED A LITTLE MORE RESISTENCE to survive and nott die ...butt sorry maybe we need Weak CLasses to ! One weak CLass is nott so BAD !@! Must we Learn to PLAY good with Weaknes cLasses to ...just GoLem Master need a LittLe Modifications for resist more than 4 rounds survive don't U think ?
Can you write with a logic sense, and not throw all your thoughts and boom! leave them like this? I very hard sometime understand you. "Why you think to delete golem master?" Because has no basic logic on it, seem to me just bounch of card with no sense to stay together and NO create synergy and/or a principle play style at all.The result is a class unfunny,some time frustating,to play with or aganst based on lucky draw or 1°/2° turn start. I don t consider it as a weak/strong class.Just very very boring class. Chaos->"dominate the random and you get hyper efficient mana cost" Domination->"trick the enemy mana" Beast->"no spell, but huge monster" Sorcery->"FELL THE MAGICCC" and move on, Golem master->"?????" For example i like the idea made by wavelenght to think it as a "build the robot and rule the world".
Wavelength | 2015-05-12 22:53:20 |
Golem master->"?????"
Golem: Rush like there's no tomorrow and pray your opponent can't handle it. For example i like the idea made by wavelenght to think it as a "build the robot and rule the world".
I appreciate that! The idea is posted here: http://spectromancer.com/forum.cgi#pageid=4586 I have wanted to update this suggestion with community suggestions, but have struggled trying to make it so that it's still balanced and coherent afterwards. Also, to give credit where it's due, the original idea for building up a juggernaut Golem through the course of the game was inspired by Filip. :) mamoulian | 2015-05-13 08:02:42 |
Golem: Rush like there's no tomorrow and pray your opponent can't handle it.
The best way. However forest can do this in a more consistent way and could be useful in the long games too.I think golem is not that bad either but definitely could use some patch up. What I don't get at all is craft3. Theodorus | 2015-05-13 08:59:16 |
... Golem: Rush like there's no tomorrow and pray your opponent can't handle it.
Best strategy world? Illusion do the same, with better card; forcing the enemy to think about it (ill 3 i watch you).And if things goes wrong you can still play in a more table-control rather life rush. When i m agaist illusion i think what i m doing/will do, agaist golem (if the card permits) i brainless spam creature with oae attack, or i just quit.
Wavelength | 2015-05-14 16:32:04 |
Best strategy world?
Nerf plz Rito Illusion do the same, with better card; forcing the enemy to think about it (ill 3 i watch you).And if things goes wrong you can still play in a more table-control rather life rush. When i m agaist illusion i think what i m doing/will do, agaist golem (if the card permits) i brainless spam creature with oae attack, or i just quit.
I actually consider Illusion a versatile class and often play the long game with it, especially if I have Oracle and Spectral Mage (or general long-game cards from basic houses). Is this the smartest way to play Illusion, I'm not sure... but it has worked well about half the time for me. Theodorus | 2015-05-15 09:35:24 |
... Nerf plz Rito
... I actually consider Illusion a versatile class and often play the long game with it, especially if I have Oracle and Spectral Mage (or general long-game cards from basic houses). Is this the smartest way to play Illusion, I'm not sure... but it has worked well about half the time for me.
Fix EUW!!! But, that is what i mean with "well designed class".
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