Sinist | 2013-07-27 09:15:18 |
Style - aggression, sacrificing elemental cards to empower special ones What some adventurers have thought when facing devils for the first time:Hahah! Those weaklings! What kind of threat can represent even hundred of them?!1. Imp 3/15 - +2 attack for each special creature on the board except himself. Good puppy, good puppy... Stay quiet. *notices second hound* What the hell! One more! *notices third hound* There are already three of hells! Aaa, every man for himself!2. Hellhound 4/17 - when attacks, all hellhounds instantly attack the same slot. Such company is worth even my soul... I would become anybody for you!3. Possession - replaces target creature of any player with special creature of the same (maximum) level with halved health. Triggers enter-the-game abilities I thought I will have to do blood test from finger... Wait, what?4. Sacrificial offering - sacrifices target creature and deals to all enemy creatures X/2 damage (X = their max hp, round up). Hey buddy. Could you give me a ligh--5. Flame lord 5/25 - every turn drains 1 hp from each friendly creature except himself and deals X damage to all enemy creatures (X=number of drained hp) Abuse is a sign of love... right?Chains, fangs, whips - I dont like such stuff at all! Wait, legs, where are you moving meee?6. Succubus 5/23 - if opposite creature has 10 or less hp remained, it switches owners at the end of turn. 2nd version (which is better?): 5/23. When enters the game, switches owners with opposite creature Ahah, what a freak - riding on other freak, no less. I will deal with both in one second... Wait - what`s happened with my fiery sword?7. Archdevil 10/38 - when enters the game, summons nightmare X/42 (X=owner fire power) in nearest empty slot and zeroizes owner fire power. Here there is a strange hole... *pierces it with spear just to make sure* oops!8. Portal 0/39 - when enters the game, summons imps in slots opposite to unblocked enemy creatures. Every turn reduces elemental powers by 1 and increases special power by 3.
Modified by Sinist on 2015-03-24 00:39:41 Sinist | 2013-07-27 09:16:07 |
RedRook | 2013-07-27 16:22:53 |
Hey, Sinist! Nice class! I remember you submitted another Devils class, right? It was much different though if I remember. The pictures are really cool, & the cards are very interesting. Here's some of my thoughts: 1.I like the idea here, & it fits what your doing, but I feel it will be too spamable. The card that comes to mind for me is Goblin Hero. 2. I am assuming that if the opposite slot is empty, the Hellhounds will deal damage to the opponent. If so, really cool! Very aggressive. They could be used very strategically, but after they hit the board, the Hounds that don't hurt their opposite creatures may become void slots, allow the opponent to summon frail creatures against them like mana generators or even W11 & 12. But at cost 2 with only 17 life, I think you'll be fine. 3. Very cool concept! Depending on the situation, you could use it on the opponent or on one of your own. Seems ok to me at cost 3, but I'm not fully confident in that, see what others think of it. 4. Cool card, but it might be a little underpowered. Comparing it to Ritual Glory, this card just comes up short - especially with the sacrifice. For its specific function, it could work really well though, & I am not sure on any solutions to make it "better". I mean, it is hard to say it is underpowered when you consider an 8 attack Lightning Cloud, or a 16 attack Bargul... Perhaps it is just because Ritual of Glory is more versatile. 5. That is a really nice ability! It could be a little abused when there are more than one of them on the board, or with a master healer. But I think it could be ok. You might lower the attack by 1, probably not the life, since it should be above Stone Rain level. 7. This card is overpowered in my opinion. Since Fire is generally an easily spendable resource, you probably wont have a whole lot of it if you are planning to use this card. But I like the base f the card. If you lower the stats a little, I think you'll be in good shape. 8. Very cool! A neat idea for a cost 8! I'm afraid I don't have anything to say about the balance though - you'll have to see what other have to say. But this is one of the most interesting special 8's I've seen in a while. Nice work! Some really neat ideas here Sinist, as usual! Keep at it! Thank you for your class suggestion. Modified by RedRook on 2013-07-27 16:47:13 Sinist | 2013-07-27 16:46:51 |
Yes, there was such a class posted a long time ago ( http://www.spectromancer.com/forum.cgi#pageid=2413) but this version is very different. It is good that you enjoyed all the stuff! And which picture looked the best? And why you have deleted your review? By the way, I just added some cool descriptions RedRook | 2013-07-27 16:54:58 |
Yes, there was such a class posted a long time ago (http://www.spectromancer.com/forum.cgi#pageid=2413) but this version is very different. It is good that you enjoyed all the stuff! And which picture looked the best? And why you have deleted your review?
By the way, I just added some cool descriptions Ah, thanks for the link - yes this class is different. I like the pictures of the Nightmare & the last picture, the Portal, & the second picture in your first post, the Imp I think? Oh, & I accidentally clicked submit before I ever typed anything I was too excited I guess. Very nice descriptors! I always like reading your flavour text. I also noticed you changed the Imp while I was typing. Looks much better now! Not so spamable! Sinist | 2013-07-27 17:22:58 |
Hey, Sinist! Nice class! I remember you submitted another Devils class, right? It was much different though if I remember.
The pictures are really cool, & the cards are very interesting. Here's some of my thoughts:
1.I like the idea here, & it fits what your doing, but I feel it will be too spamable. The card that comes to mind for me is Goblin Hero.
2. I am assuming that if the opposite slot is empty, the Hellhounds will deal damage to the opponent. If so, really cool! Very aggressive. They could be used very strategically, but after they hit the board, the Hounds that don't hurt their opposite creatures may become void slots, allow the opponent to summon frail creatures against them like mana generators or even W11 & 12. But at cost 2 with only 17 life, I think you'll be fine.
3. Very cool concept! Depending on the situation, you could use it on the opponent or on one of your own. Seems ok to me at cost 3, but I'm not fully confident in that, see what others think of it.
4. Cool card, but it might be a little underpowered. Comparing it to Ritual Glory, this card just comes up short - especially with the sacrifice. For its specific function, it could work really well though, & I am not sure on any solutions to make it "better". I mean, it is hard to say it is underpowered when you consider an 8 attack Lightning Cloud, or a 16 attack Bargul... Perhaps it is just because Ritual of Glory is more versatile.
5. That is a really nice ability! It could be a little abused when there are more than one of them on the board, or with a master healer. But I think it could be ok. You might lower the attack by 1, probably not the life, since it should be above Stone Rain level.
7. This card is overpowered in my opinion. Since Fire is generally an easily spendable resource, you probably wont have a whole lot of it if you are planning to use this card. But I like the base f the card. If you lower the stats a little, I think you'll be in good shape.
8. Very cool! A neat idea for a cost 8! I'm afraid I don't have anything to say about the balance though - you'll have to see what other have to say. But this is one of the most interesting special 8's I've seen in a while. Nice work!
Some really neat ideas here Sinist, as usual! Keep at it!
Thank you for your class suggestion. I appreciate feedback from one of the mose experienced classmakers here, as always1. Now it is not so spammable. Still, it is a good counter to goblin hero himself due to bonus attack applying to all specials. No more frustrating rush 2. I enjoyed inventing such an agressive (not my usual style) card Ofcourse it will be more than happy to make feast of opponent as well! I am not sure about the part " the Hounds that don't hurt their opposite creatures may become void slots" though Hounds always hurt their opposite creatures, no matter how many of the are on the board. Their ability is an instant attack, similiar to haste. 3. Okay. i hope too that Wave (and somebody else) will visit this thread 4. I agree with you completely. Sacrifice may look somewhat worse than ritual... which is extremely powerful, sometimes disbalanced card however. I dont aim at putting all of devils special cards on the edge between balance and imbalance. 5. Do you think it neccessary? Now flame lord doesnt give additional damage for himself, and his abiility is not much better (takng into account side effect) than ornithopter anyway, imho. Right? 6. Were you stunned by succubus appearance too much to see her in proper perspective? 7. I am surprised honestly. 1) Your second sentence contradicts first one: if "you probably wont have a whole lot of fire if you are planning to use this card", not really powerful nightmare would appear. 2) If archdevil is overpowered, then greater demon which deals terrible terrible damage (not much worse than summon of big but "despecialised" creature) and keeps fire mana, is?.. 8. Honestly, portal conept is not that original since it is based on blind prophet but it is noce to hear anyway *_*
Sinist | 2013-07-27 17:24:39 |
... Ah, thanks for the link - yes this class is different. I like the pictures of the Nightmare & the last picture, the Portal, & the second picture in your first post, the Imp I think? Oh, & I accidentally clicked submit before I ever typed anything I was too excited I guess.
Very nice descriptors! I always like reading your flavour text.
I liked them a lot too - not as much as hound pictures though This imp really has rather original appearance. Oh, I see)
Modified by Sinist on 2013-07-27 17:24:48 RedRook | 2013-07-27 21:22:02 |
I appreciate feedback from one of the mose experienced classmakers here, as always 1. Now it is not so spammable. Still, it is a good counter to goblin hero himself due to bonus attack applying to all specials. No more frustrating rush 2. I enjoyed inventing such an agressive (not my usual style) cardOfcourse it will be more than happy to make feast of opponent as well! I am not sure about the part " the Hounds that don't hurt their opposite creatures may become void slots" though Hounds always hurt their opposite creatures, no matter how many of the are on the board. Their ability is an instant attack, similiar to haste. 3. Okay. i hope too that Wave (and somebody else) will visit this thread 4. I agree with you completely. Sacrifice may look somewhat worse than ritual... which is extremely powerful, sometimes disbalanced card however. I dont aim at putting all of devils special cards on the edge between balance and imbalance. 5. Do you think it neccessary? Now flame lord doesnt give additional damage for himself, and his abiility is not much better (takng into account side effect) than ornithopter anyway, imho. Right? 6. Were you stunned by succubus appearance too much to see her in proper perspective? 7. I am surprised honestly. 1) Your second sentence contradicts first one: if "you probably wont have a whole lot of fire if you are planning to use this card", not really powerful nightmare would appear. 2) If archdevil is overpowered, then greater demon which deals terrible terrible damage (not much worse than summon of big but "despecialised" creature) and keeps fire mana, is?.. 8. Honestly, portal conept is not that original since it is based on blind prophet but it is noce to hear anyway *_*
Thanks! I appreciate the complement - you are one of the best in my opinion. 1. Yes, Imp is much better now, I'd say it is fine. 2. Ah, ok. I misunderstood the card then - I took it as, "all Hellhounds attack the same target" not each one attacks their friend's enemy too. Still a nice card! I'm a little worried that it might become a little much for the opponent to handle at times, but no more than say a Goblin Saboteur or Insanian Berserker. It seems like it could be really strong (& will be in certain situations) but it all depends on if you can set it up & how well the opponent can deal with it. I think you're alright. 3. I'm sure you'll see more critique. I haven't seen Wavelength on for quite some time, he is a busy person. 4. The card is probably fair as it sits. See what others may say about it. 5. Well... I guess it is alright. The maximum damage it will be dishing out will be 5, just 3 more than Ornithopter, at 1 more cost & with the draining negative effect... When put in those terms, it seems pretty well balanced. But with a full-ish board & certain set-ups, it might act more like Ratsmaster (I really don't know why my mind keeps going to the Goblins class, haha!) Probably, it is ok. I just feel like it could be a tad overpowered at times - but there are cards like that now. 6. Oh yeah! Those cloven hooves really drive me wild! I'm still getting used to the board-swapping creatures. I know you like them. This one is tame enough I might be able to appreciate it. The way it is set up now, it will probably act more or less like a one shot deal - summon her across from a valuable weak creature & steal it; once unblocked it may not see another creature, or at least not trigger the effect. I kind of like it actually, though I am wary about stealing opponent cards just because of draw & banned combos. We'll see how others feel about this seductress! Can they resist her temptations? 7. Maybe I read this one wrong. Does the attack of Nightmare equal your Fire power as it grows, like an Elemental, or does it gain its attack & keep it when it is summoned? Perhaps you could shed some light on this for me? 8. Well, yes it is based on Blind Prophet, but its function is much different. It is an interesting card to say the least. I liked them a lot too - not as much as hound pictures though This imp really has rather original appearance. Oh, I see)
Those Hounds pictures are pretty wicked! Yeah, that Imp is not the stereotypical Imp image - that makes it more appealing, at least to me. Good class! A little out of your usual zone as it is a more aggressive class, but you have done well. Modified by RedRook on 2013-07-28 01:40:28 Sinist | 2013-07-28 09:02:50 |
... Thanks! I appreciate the complement - you are one of the best in my opinion.
1. Yes, Imp is much better now, I'd say it is fine.
2. Ah, ok. I misunderstood the card then - I took it as, "all Hellhounds attack the same target" not each one attacks their friend's enemy too. Still a nice card! I'm a little worried that it might become a little much for the opponent to handle at times, but no more than say a Goblin Saboteur or Insanian Berserker. It seems like it could be really strong (& will be in certain situations) but it all depends on if you can set it up & how well the opponent can deal with it. I think you're alright.
3. I'm sure you'll see more critique. I haven't seen Wavelength on for quite some time, he is a busy person.
4. The card is probably fair as it sits. See what others may say about it.
5. Well... I guess it is alright. The maximum damage it will be dishing out will be 5, just 3 more than Ornithopter, at 1 more cost & with the draining negative effect... When put in those terms, it seems pretty well balanced. But with a full-ish board & certain set-ups, it might act more like Ratsmaster (I really don't know why my mind keeps going to the Goblins class, haha!) Probably, it is ok. I just feel like it could be a tad overpowered at times - but there are cards like that now.
6. Oh yeah! Those cloven hooves really drive me wild! I'm still getting used to the board-swapping creatures. I know you like them. This one is tame enough I might be able to appreciate it. The way it is set up now, it will probably act more or less like a one shot deal - summon her across from a valuable weak creature & steal it; once unblocked it may not see another creature, or at least not trigger the effect. I kind of like it actually, though I am wary about stealing opponent cards just because of draw & banned combos. We'll see how others feel about this seductress! Can they resist her temptations?
7. Maybe I read this one wrong. Does the attack of Nightmare equal your Fire power as it grows, like an Elemental, or does it gain its attack & keep it when it is summoned? Perhaps you could shed some light on this for me?
8. Well, yes it is based on Blind Prophet, but its function is much different. It is an interesting card to say the least.
Maybe you are right 2. Well, without this card might be underpowered. Also, such concept fits description and logic. The same situation as with real pack; one hound wont make adventurer even scratch his head, two will pose a real threat, and four will tear apart anything on their way. 3. It is a pity... Anyway, I forgot to mention that this card is subjected to dargon ability... and creature neter-the-game effects work! Just imagine look on the face of opponent-cultist when you cast possession on his troll Or transform his tutrtle 1 turn before deadly armageddon. Actually, the more I examine this card, the more I am convinced that it has extreme tactical depth. For example, you can use it to move golem (golem 7) in neccessary slot (right opposite to titan or hydra). Or block all opponent`s empty slots (forest 7). Or finish vampire lord off with help of his own high level card - not to mention more primitive use to simply get rid of dragon, ice guard, astral guard or some other annoying elemental card. (Sorcerer is immune to nasty tricks though...) 4. I will think about possible ways of editing it, nevertheless. 5. Your mind keeps going to the Goblins class because ratmaster is the very guy which I was inspired by while creating this card! And remember that there is a whole class overpowered with master healer. 6. Be careful if you (and any other reviewer) dont want to find yourself under one of these hoofs I agree that while lady may be extremely dangerous sometimes (hi to dragageddon, hydra with regeneration 7, hell time machine!), it is pretty easy to deal with for cautious player because of poor stats (diet ). 7. No, its attack is fixed on the moment when it was summoned. Otherwise free beefy fir elem would become imba of course. 8. Thanks! It does fit demonic style of giving up elements for hellish power
Sinist | 2013-07-30 14:24:31 |
Alternative 4th card: Sacrificial offerings - sacrifices target creature and deals to all enemy creatures X/2 damage (X = their max hp)
RedRook | 2013-07-30 22:18:00 |
6. Be careful if you (and any other reviewer) dont want to find yourself under one of these hoofs I agree that while lady may be extremely dangerous sometimes (hi to dragageddon, hydra with regeneration 7, hell time machine!), it is pretty easy to deal with for cautious player because of poor stats (diet ). 7. No, its attack is fixed on the moment when it was summoned. Otherwise free beefy fir elem would become imba of course.
6. You are probably right, its stats don't make it too dangerous, especially for a play that knows what they're doing. I actually just thought of an interesting counter to this card: Wall of Fire. The opponent could summon Walls of Fire across from her, deal the damage, & give you a void slot, polluting your side of the board. I don't know that it would have a huge impact, but I just thought it was a funny idea! -- By the way, where does the seduced creature land when it switches sides - random slot, leftmost, or rightmost? 7. That makes more sense. I still feel it is a little overpowered. I do like however the way you balanced it - the higher you want the Nightmare's attack, the more Fire mana you must give up. I think the concept is great, & the Nightmare is fine. But I think the Archdevil should get a little stats nerf - because of the potentially dangerous two creature summons. Something at like 7/40 or 8/38. Alternative 4th card: Sacrificial offerings - sacrifices target creature and deals to all enemy creatures X/2 damage (X = their max hp) Interesting. Like a Poisonous Cloud + Blood Ritual combination. This is cool, but I like the original one better though. Sinist | 2013-07-31 07:44:10 |
RedRook | 2013-08-04 18:25:33 |
3. Do you agree with my thoughts? 4. Come on, you said yourself that old version was slightly underpowered. This one is stronger, right: 6. Oh yeah - seducing walls is very dangerous activitiy for your health! Seduced creature goes to nearest to succubus empty slot (to gaze at her longer, of course) Edit: Oh, forgot that since succubus has attack 5, wall would be insta-killed before the end of turn 7. I dont see where are you going from. As I said, if archdevil seems overpowred (not sure why), then greater demon which has already been in the game for a while is much greater imba - but nobody seems to compain... 3. It is a pity - hopefully he will make his triumphant return soon! 4. Oh yes, it is stronger. But I like the concept of the original one better. 6. That makes sense! O, to be nearer those hooves! "Edit": As it is in the first post, Succubus has 4 attack - if it is to be 5 you may want to edit that. 7. It is not that Archdevil is overpowered, it is the combined power of Archdevil and his pretty-little-pony Nightmare. I think that getting two really strong creatures for the cost 7 is quite dangerous - their combined strength is very strong. I do understand that it also costs Fire mana, which should make it stronger. But it just seems a little too strong. If we look at the raw numbers, it probably isn't "overpowered" seeing as the Fire mana is spent as well, adding to the value of the card. I guess it is hard to say since the Fire cost is not a reliable estimate since it all depends on when it is summoned. I don't know. It is hard for me to judge without seeing it in action. You have more experience than I do, so if you believe it is fine, stick with it. Would you mind detailing your thoughts on this cards please? I would like to know what you think about it - what you have in mind. Thanks. I think you're right there! This class is pretty good! I have enjoyed working with you again.
Modified by RedRook on 2013-08-04 18:28:30 Sinist | 2013-08-04 18:51:00 |
3. *still hopes* 4. Well, it was not really original as well) 6. Yup, I forgot to edit it. Thabnks for reminding! 7. I get what you mean here. Two beefy guys are two times harder to block. This card would be very dangerous in rush of course. Howerer fire itself is very useful uin rush too (arma or dragon are likely to be in your draw), so abandoning it is a huge risk... And archdevil/nightmare combo doesnt represent any sort of danger except brute force. Again, I believe that Greater Demon is genereally more reliable and powerful but nobody calls it overpowered. Sinist | 2013-08-05 17:33:35 |
Reworked portal due to criticism (it was believed to be much weaker than cult 6)
Sinist | 2013-10-19 11:33:49 |
Any more feedback?.. soldat12 | 2013-10-22 18:35:21 |
I like a lot of fresh ideas, especially these ones:
2. Hellhound 4/17 - when attacks, all hellhounds attack the same slot. OP in late stages, especially with elements, I think it should be moved up to at least 4 cost
3. Possession - replaces target creature of any player with special creature of the same (maximum) level with halved health. I don't udnerstand what it does
4. Sacrificial offering - sacrifices target creature and deals to all enemy creatures X/2 damage (X = their max hp). So if its hydra it will deal 21 damage to all? Is it like Death5 + Dominator5?
5.
Flame lord 5/26 - every turn drains 1 hp from each friendly creature
except himself and deals X damage to all enemy creatures (X=number of
drained hp) Like it! need more hp though
6. Succubus 5/23 - if opposite creature has 10 or less hp remained, it switches owners at the end of turn. Love it
7.
Archdevil 9/38 - when enters the game, summons nightmare X/42 (X=owner
fire power) in nearest empty slots and zeroizes owner fire power. OP
8.
Portal 0/39 - when enters the game, summons imps in slots opposite to
unblocked enemy creatures. Every turn reduces elemental powers by 1 and
increases special power by 3. nice concept but it might turn vs yourself (considering slot breaks in late game)
Sinist | 2013-10-22 18:49:49 |
2. Not sure why it should be op with elementals... And with cost 4 this card becomes useless - no reliable way to get more than one on the board and have some benefit from it. 3. For example, you can replace friendly troll with portal, enemy troll - with greater bargul. 4. Any creature can be sacrificed with the same effect. 5. It is already almost ratmasterish-powerful, imho) 7. No way. Just compare with with demon 8 which doesnt absorb fire power. 8. Maybe, maybe not. Since it helps to fill the slots.
soldat12 | 2013-10-23 15:54:00 |
2. my bad, I thought that ALL ccreatures will attack to the slot against hellhound. as it now, it seems ok then
3. I still don't get it. What means "same (maximum) level?
4. aha, looks nice, jsut little bit boring (i.e. we have similar mechanics in play already?) But its qutie balanced
5. On a second thought, I agree
7. It's op because, imagine, you have only one big damage spell, like Armaor even Stonerain and you have jsut used all your mana i nthat school. Archidevil will make it impossible to win, considering these huge hp pool of nightmares and huge attack of Archdevil.
Compare it to vampire7 with bigger attack (I think you always have at least 5 fire mana which you can spare for that overkill). And it can be used in late game (whereas you are rarelly can afford to use Vampire7 in late.
I don't know if reducing number of "nigthmares" will help in that, maybe even one nightmare with so much hp could be too dangerous against certain classes or bad draws with no creatures prsented (say, sorcery at very least)
Sinist | 2013-10-23 16:33:23 |
3. This means that since there are 8 levels of special creatures and 12 of elemental ones, even dragon cannot be turned into smth higher than, let us say, lich... 4. Not sure if it is boring. Its effect is generally more powerful than that of cloud (which counts only current hp, not max) 7. Hands down, vampire 7 is waay more powerful, even despire life cost (which is compensated by fire cost). It is generally more viable (being mostly invulerable), better both in attack and defence (occupies 3 slots), combines better with global destruction and heals owner. Late game is exavtly where vampires shine, imho. What do you mean when speaking of earth 9/fire 11? Arma would be consumed, and stone rain is no better with nightmare than with many other high level cards. I don't know if reducing number of "nigthmares" will help in that, maybe even one nightmare with so much hp could be too dangerous against certain classes or bad draws with no creatures prsented (say, sorcery at very least)
??? Archdevil always does summon only one nightmare... X is its attack power, duh
Modified by Sinist on 2013-10-23 16:33:29 soldat12 | 2013-10-23 18:18:21 |
7. Archdevil 9/38 - when enters the game, summons nightmare X/42 (X=owner fire power) in nearest empty slots in original text it looks like there is 2 nightmares.
and no, Using fire6 totally not compensate 15 hp loss, not even close (if we're talking about mid/late game). hp should be much lowered
Sinist | 2013-10-23 18:37:35 |
Well, actualy there is only one of them) Vampire Lords heal themselves so -14 hp should be no problem for experienced player.
Sinist | 2015-03-24 00:36:30 |
Reedited old class
|