| Cooler | 2013-02-03 10:03:36 |
| Cooler | 2013-02-03 10:14:45 |
| Wavelength | 2013-02-03 10:24:09 |
Great to see this up, Cooler. It is wonderful that players' accomplishments in Tournaments can now be immortalized forever! If you'd like to grab my replays for the page, I made them all available in the "Wavelength's Tournament Experience" thread at http://spectromancer.com/forum.cgi#pageid=3450Thanks again for taking your time to host the tournament - nearly everyone seemed to enjoy it. And congrats to Kroma, who played an awesome series and deserves the win. | Cooler | 2013-02-03 10:47:20 |
My first 30-50 minutes were horrible :-) I was in panic: players enter, leave, ask something... The main problem was to determine who is ready to play and who has problems. But then everything was sorted out somehow.
| Cooler | 2013-02-03 16:09:19 |
I want to pay attention on card visibility for observers. It's certainly fun to watch battles with displayed cards, but if you think that opponents are noble and won't take this advantage - you're definitely wrong. So take care...
| Wavelength | 2013-02-03 19:02:07 |
I want to pay attention on card visibility for observers. It's certainly fun to watch battles with displayed cards, but if you think that opponents are noble and won't take this advantage - you're definitely wrong. So take care... Did you catch any cheaters during the event, or is this just coming from a position of common sense? I kept my cards hidden most of the day, but during the semi-finals I figured everyone would want to watch, so took the calculated risk and exposed my cards. I know that Kroma was also showing his cards, so I assumed (correctly so, I'm sure) that he would never cheat.
| dimurel | 2013-02-03 19:17:30 |
...
Did you catch any cheaters during the event, or is this just coming from a position of common sense?
I kept my cards hidden most of the day, but during the semi-finals I figured everyone would want to watch, so took the calculated risk and exposed my cards. I know that Kroma was also showing his cards, so I assumed (correctly so, I'm sure) that he would never cheat.
In general, the probability of encountering such a situation is very low. The fact that the strong players are primarily sporting interest. A weaker players will lose, even if they know cards. I think that everyone chooses for themselves: paranoia or interest. Even if the opponent knows the cards for you, it is still a challenge for both. Besides strong players usually define dangerous maps and protected properly, even if they do not know exactly about them. One day I had such a tournament, I was closing cards, afraid view (I saw that some have done so). But I'm lost, when worried about it, although my card was closed. Then I stopped to think about it, trust in people, and opened the card. My game is immediately improved. Modified by dimurel on 2013-02-03 19:17:54
... In general, the probability of encountering such a situation is very low. The fact that the strong players are primarily sporting interest. A weaker players will lose, even if they know cards. I think that everyone chooses for themselves: paranoia or interest. Even if the opponent knows the cards for you, it is still a challenge for both. Besides strong players usually define dangerous maps and protected properly, even if they do not know exactly about them. One day I had such a tournament, I was closing cards, afraid view (I saw that some have done so). But I'm lost, when worried about it, although my card was closed. Then I stopped to think about it, trust in people, and opened the card. My game is immediately improved.
hmm, not think so.
If the opponent knows the cards of you from game start he will get BIG advantage. Modified by Sinot on 2013-02-03 20:20:50 | dimurel | 2013-02-03 21:55:40 |
... hmm, not think so. If the opponent knows the cards of you from game start he will get BIG advantage.
Only if it's a very good player (and good players rarely do so because they are interested in winning, not points). Weak player only confuse themselves with excess information. I often know from the beginning of the battle, many important cards opponent, but it still does not help. And in other cases the opposite. | FORESTRY | 2013-02-03 22:39:52 |
For seeing the opponent's cards to be an advantage, in the early game one would need to accurately predict which strategy the opponent is going and how to counter it properly... if one does not have the skill to notice the strong synergies that are possible nor the skill to counter them, then the information indeed just is confusing and overwhelming...
also, an omniscient observer communicating with a cheating player presents a problem in itself, because the omniscient observer must be a high level to be of any use, and the cheating player must be of a certain level also to make it into certain tourney's bracket-elimination, and thus might not listen to all the suggestions of cards to play, unless hes a complete noob, but then that would mean that the player is just a puppet to the observer, in which case i wouldnt see the point...
I mean, really, i think cheating is a hard thing to do, and to cheat there must be a motivation, and since we dont play for money or sponsorships i dont think many people are willing to put so much effort into it.
| Wavelength | 2013-02-04 04:21:13 |
I'll say this: I've had observers (who probably wanted to be my friend) tell me opponents' cards in standard non-tourney games before, and I politely asked them to stop telling me anything. So I think it's reasonable to think there might be people out there doing this.
| Beehive | 2013-02-04 06:59:38 |
Thank you Cooler for excellent fun tournament!
When I observe I try to stay away from comment on current game in any way, except to other observers. I might talk about it after with player. This is common sports(wo)manship, respect for sacred spectromancer duel.
What is feeling on low level alts participating in tournament? I feel knowing style of player is key asset. Participating as low level alt is like "striking from shadows" where you know enemy but they don't know you. You can pick a class before the match based on opponent record. They have no way to know if they should pick one of strong class or conserve this for later. But also this diminishes joy of community because tournament progress can't be understood from random level 1 undefeated person. Am I playing to my strong if not also using this approach? If we don't want this kind of thing, one solution is to have level for tiebreak instead of opponent record which encourages players not to come with alts and balances the advantages you have when hiding your own record.
I used the strategy in the tournament of playing my most hated classes first. Accidentally I choose worst of all 16 for a few games before I realize games < 16.  I noticed that different classes I fought against were actually few. Many times I faced time, for example. Not sure if this is bad luck or probability. I know some class have chance of draws that are easy to play for low level player but hard to deal with for high level playerânot certain, but maybe best hope for mismatched opponent.
Twice opponent picked the same class vs me twice in a row. Both times they surrender and we play again, but of course they saw my class choice. Both times I won this game anyway so this did not affect anything. According to the automatic standings, the opponent had automatically lost after surrender. Cooler ruled that this was automatic loss.
I forgot to save some replays. It's hard to remember. I put a notepad on the desktop "SAVE REPLAY!" next to the game window but this did not help. If anyone has technique or strategy for this please help. | Wavelength | 2013-02-04 07:27:06 |
What is feeling on low level alts participating in tournament? I feel knowing style of player is key asset. Participating as low level alt is like "striking from shadows" where you know enemy but they don't know you. You can pick a class before the match based on opponent record. They have no way to know if they should pick one of strong class or conserve this for later. But also this diminishes joy of community because tournament progress can't be understood from random level 1 undefeated person. Am I playing to my strong if not also using this approach? If we don't want this kind of thing, one solution is to have level for tiebreak instead of opponent record which encourages players not to come with alts and balances the advantages you have when hiding your own record. I understand the problem you're referring to, and I do agree that it's better when people come with their main accounts or at least alternates they have that are a known quantity (I wouldn't mind if Erickiller came as ChaosLord, for instance). I don't think it's a huge problem, but it's worth addressing if there's a good solution, since it's perhaps an unfair advantage for only one player to know the other's style (and most likely class choices) heading into a match. Would I give up the chance to represent my name and earn Spectromancer "immortality" by winning, just to gain this slight advantage? No, there's no chance. I hate the idea of using Level as a tiebreak; opponent record is a good tiebreak because it compensates players for a really strong slate of opponents. But I wouldn't be against a rule that required an account to have, for example, either Level 6+ or 250+ duels in order to be allowed in. I forgot to save some replays. It's hard to remember. I put a notepad on the desktop "SAVE REPLAY!" next to the game window but this did not help. If anyone has technique or strategy for this please help. If you can remember to slow down on the final turn of the game, you should be able to get into the mindset of "don't click the OK right away". I forgot a lot of replays at the beginning of the first tourney, but now that it's "habit" I just find it a lot easier. | Cooler | 2013-02-04 09:17:58 |
What is feeling on low level alts participating in tournament? I feel knowing style of player is key asset. Participating as low level alt is like "striking from shadows" where you know enemy but they don't know you. You can pick a class before the match based on opponent record. They have no way to know if they should pick one of strong class or conserve this for later. But also this diminishes joy of community because tournament progress can't be understood from random level 1 undefeated person.
On the other hand, that was pretty fun! People were trying to guess who is Ekmakarek (by style and behavior) and finally someone guessed :) It's kinda trolling, not for serious play. You probably won't be happy by winning the tournament under "Abc123" :-) | LaoTse | 2013-02-04 13:36:53 |
(by style and behavior)?
Typical chaosLord style, simple and effective, but against Supercomputers like Kroma he has no chance...Meditation in the first move...well, that speaks against him, because chaosLord would never ever Meditate lol, but in this last 2 games he played completely different...well, when I know I have no chance, I make stupid moves too, that´s understandable.
Btw Beehive, Kroma doesn´t care, he always plays against SeaLeta...a Supercomputer has no feelings or thoughts...(just kidding)...in one Replay I have seen a very big mistake of him (no not Waves 1% draw), that´s why SeaLeta is still better...SeaLeta plays even when sleep...and goes down to Level 40,,,when awake he climbs back to 48...these 2 are the 2 Spectro-gods, ah and we have also a Spectro-goddess: Beehive...forget your humanlike feelings and just play always perfect and np!
Great job Cooler, you don´t need Pinke...awesome, that you do this for the community (in your freetime)!
| LaoTse | 2013-02-04 15:16:06 |
No, it was not chaosLord, it was a Level 27 player...
| GrimJ0ker | 2013-02-04 15:23:09 |
Ekmakarek is a Russian player. He's ( cleared). (Edit by Wave: It's actually thought to be heorhehe. I'm clearing the original name that you thought it was to protect their good name.)Modified by Wavelength on 2013-02-05 02:08:55 | LaoTse | 2013-02-04 15:30:25 |
Russian player is right. (cleared) is heorhehe?
Why not all have a simple sign like "Il debole e' destinato all'estinzione.", and investigations would be much easier... Modified by LaoTse on 2013-02-05 09:31:48 | Jeronimo | 2013-02-04 19:10:48 |
But I wouldn't be against a rule that required an account to have, for example, either Level 6+ or 250+ duels in order to be allowed in.
Cooler might have liked this first trolling from heorhehe... but if we are honest with ourselves... don't you think this "joke" now will lack significance and become boring if in every next tournament you see a random altern account reach Finals?
Being serious... I don't like that it affects your "class planning" having perhaps 2 unnecessary defeats vs a real +25/30 level.
I ask for a new sign in rule for the kind of players that will join that day into tournament. I like Wavelenght suggestion of +250 duels played... so if you are going to troll around, invest more time in that fake account.
| Wavelength | 2013-02-04 19:52:33 |
I ask for a new sign in rule for the kind of players that will join that day into tournament.I like Wavelenght suggestion of +250 duels played... so if you are going to troll around, invest more time in that fake account. My suggestion, to be clear, was 250+ duels OR Level 6+ (either one will qualify an account for the monthly tournaments), so players like Valentyne (who obviously deserves a spot if she wants it) could also make it in.
Modified by Wavelength on 2013-02-04 19:52:45 | Jeronimo | 2013-02-04 20:32:19 |
Oh yes, I forgot about good people with few games played. Indeed let me correct myself... Level +6 is better (and easier to check).
The main idea is to minimize alter frauds... that joke is old, and not appropiate for a official event.
I wouldn't like this becoming popular in future (more random alter accounts before starting a tournament). | Valentyne | 2013-02-04 22:38:14 |
...so players like Valentyne (who obviously deserves a spot if she wants it) could also make it in.
 | GrimJ0ker | 2013-02-05 01:12:29 |
Why not all have a simple sign like "Il debole e' destinato all'estinzione.", and investigations would be much easier...
Or "whitout love you are nothing" 
| roycelin3 | 2013-02-05 03:29:42 |
Agree. I hate alt accounts | Cooler | 2013-02-05 09:18:20 |
Cooler might have liked this first trolling from heorhehe... but if we are honest with ourselves... don't you think this "joke" now will lack significance and become boring if in every next tournament you see a random altern account reach Finals?
It's very unlikely to have an alt in the final each time. And in general alts are unavoidable. But I like a rule like "100+ duels or 5+ level" - just to avoid completely inexperienced players who make mess. | 
